TRUMP n DUMP this SH:IT till we get a linux answer

[shootm3h]

seriously. should i trust trump or the dump more than you?

or should i expect you to play the game like they do?

you made a promise, give us an ETA or EAT the topic.

you've ignored us for long enough.

for those of you not on linux, piss off and post somewhere else.

EDIT: To save scrolling for linux users looking for an official update: (Thanks to Toshiba-3, still no OFFICIAL UPDATE FROM THE COMMUNITY MANAGER)

(dated 17th June 2016) at the 5:18 mark. Here's a link straight to the relevant part of the video:

https://youtu.be/sU3BP589YIM?list=PLCA9zFfvVxqD6JtgDOdvSqe6lFVaUVpjI&t=318

I'll even give you a quick transcript:

Nobby: "Linux, Linux is being discussed and uhm, how the game is going to come to Linux is uhm, being sorted out, i think we even uhm, we may even have the people to do that lined up. So yeap, that's still on the cards, we haven't forgotten it. Obviously Mac and Linux."

Shane: "We're still committed to it, we are not going to let you down."

Nobby: "That's right."

Shane: "No no no"

[LittleBabyman]

Hey, at least I'd have another reason to switch to linux.

[FunnyOctopus]

They said its on its way.

It will happen.

Just calm down , there is no need to be angry about it.

At least its on its way , right? is that not better than it not being on its way?

Its true its hard to wait , but on the bright side , when it does come you will get the best of first impresions as you skip C:R and get all the new features that C:MD offered us on PC.

[shootm3h]

They said its on its way.]

who says, where? the kickstarter 'promise' if you pay us, from 5 years ago?

"we've now released the PC (oops WINDOWS cuz we don't know the difference apparently) and we are busy beavering away at linux port"

where's that update? show me.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stainlessgames/carmageddon-reincarnation/posts/1720477

here's the latest kickstarter update, with COMMENTS.

now if you press CTRL + F and type in linux, you'll see i'm not alone either.

i'm telling you how to search for linux in the comments, because apparently stainless hasn't noticed that there are more "where's my linux" than any pats on the back for a job well done.

[FunnyOctopus]

They said its on its way.]

who says, where? the kickstarter 'promise' if you pay us, from 5 years ago?

"we've now released the PC (oops WINDOWS cuz we don't know the difference apparently) and we are busy beavering away at linux port"

where's that update? show me.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stainlessgames/carmageddon-reincarnation/posts/1720477

here's the latest kickstarter update, with COMMENTS.

now if you press CTRL + F and type in linux, you'll see i'm not alone either.

i'm telling you how to search for linux in the comments, because apparently stainless hasn't noticed that there are more "where's my linux" than any pats on the back for a job well done.

They said so in the livestreams.

[Toshiba-3]

Hello. What's up with the rude attitude. Not a good way to invite users/Stainless to answer you. Welcome anyway.

I'll just quote a post from Steam forums:

how is the devs talking directly to viewers in a livestream any less real than a forum post from the same devs?

Former is kinda hard to see right now.

Not at all! Here you go, every Carmageddon livestream since March 26th 2014:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCA9zFfvVxqD6JtgDOdvSqe6lFVaUVpjI

Looking specifically for mentions of Linux? Well, most of the recent livestreams have some mention of it but try the latest (dated 17th June 2016) at the 5:18 mark. Here's a link straight to the relevant part of the video:

https://youtu.be/sU3BP589YIM?list=PLCA9zFfvVxqD6JtgDOdvSqe6lFVaUVpjI&t=318

I'll even give you a quick transcript:

Nobby: "Linux, Linux is being discussed and how the game is going to come to Linux is being sorted out, we may even have the people to do that lined up. So yeah, that's still on the cards, we haven't forgotten it. Obviously Mac and Linux."

Shane: "We're still committed to it, we're not going to let you down."

Nobby: "That's right."

Call me naïve but I happen to believe them. Admittedly, I have a lot of faith in Stainless but it's not just my rose-tinted view of the world - as I said before, if they were going to scrap it I really don't think they'd still be banging on about it. They know that will only make things worse so if they say it's still coming (right up to the most recent livestream just a couple of months ago) then it's reasonable to assume it's still coming, IMHO.

Also Shane (community manager) reiterated two days ago in the IRC chat that Stainless are commited to the Linux/Mac ports.

So hang in there, it'll arrive eventually.

[Epitaph]

you sound like a cunt. If i was your father i'd call social services to offer you euthanasia or sth.

[TwIsTeDMiNd]

who says, where? the kickstarter 'promise' if you pay us, from 5 years ago?

Stick your head out of your ass and search! It's been said many times in the last 5 years...

now if you press CTRL + F and type in linux, you'll see i'm not alone either.

i'm telling you how to search for linux in the comments

Maybe we should tell you how to search in the forum too because apparently you don't know where to find answers to your questions. Also, watching the streams like every other interested in the game do would help you find what you want.

[shootm3h]

show me.

[shootm3h]

maybe it was something to do growing up playing sadistic games like carma.

maybe the polite person who replied to shane in the forums asking for linux update and got ignored.

so why not post like a cunt instead?

[Trent]

Did you even read what Toshiba-3 posted? It included a link to Nobby talking about how they have someone lined up to work on it back in June this year: https://youtu.be/sU3BP589YIM?list=PLCA9zFfvVxqD6JtgDOdvSqe6lFVaUVpjI&t=318

[shootm3h]

well it looks like he edited it away before i saw it.

anyway, Trent, thanks for the link.(Really thanks for taking the time to post / repost it)

seems like "we uhm might, i think, possibly even have some people lined up to do that". from near 5 months ago.

great update.

whoever dug out that link at the time marker. thanks very much.

to the people responsible for bringing us updates officially, why are community members doing your job for you?

i'm not going to hump irc, youtube, twitch or search the forums one by one to just to see a mention of linux and then no official response.

it's someone's job to bring us updates, not the communities.

EDIT: and after looking again ofc i can see Toshiba-3's links, unfortunately it looks like a quote from previous comments so i glazed over and kept scrolling :D still a post from a steam forum. Why is kickstarter and CARMA forums lacking updates, why does the community manager ignore it completely?! with quite a few people complaning it should seem obvious to put out an UPDATE. OFFICIALLY.

[Epitaph]

hmmm, you seem like a more reasonable fellow now. Welcome to the forums.

[ToreadorVampire]

Regardless of sentiment in previous posts, I'm also really keen for a Linux ETA. Failing that just an actual confirmation that it's being worked on is better than nothing.

At first it was "Once we finish Reincarnation for Windows we'll give you Linux like we promised". Then out of nowhere we had "Forget Reincarnation, Max Damage is the cool new thing. Oh we're doing consoles first btw.". Now it's "Finally we have Max Damage done for Windows, hurrah!"

Given the track record, I'm worried that some other surprise spin-off is going to end up being done before Linux. Like Max Damage 'ported to the Commodore 64 or some such :-/

The main reason I'm starting to get grumpy is that (from my perspective) this kickstarter still hasn't delivered anything at all.

[Toshiba-3]

Hello ToreadorVampire. The way I see it is that they just achieved their initial goal (the "Once we finish Reincarnation for Windows" part), it's not named Reincarnation anymore but it's the finished product they intended.

I think it's safe to assume the console ports were a vital move for some cash and check that the project was still a viable one?

Somehow I can picture the Win port getting some more quick patches, then getting a GOG release (and thus delivering the DRM-free copies), and arriving for Linux and Mac. I'm actually looking forward for you Linux guys to have your hands on it and enjoy it :)

[Trent]

lAt first it was "Once we finish Reincarnation for Windows we'll give you Linux like we promised". Then out of nowhere we had "Forget Reincarnation, Max Damage is the cool new thing. Oh we're doing consoles first btw.". Now it's "Finally we have Max Damage done for Windows, hurrah!

You do realise Max Damage is Reincarnation, right? "Max Damage" being released on Windows is the stage they were talking about when they said "when Reincarnation is finished." The fact it has a different name is irrelevant, it's the "finished" game Reincarnation was meant to become.

You should also realise that the console release, which they have always said they wanted to do even before the Linux stretch goal was announced, was very important to bring in more revenue and funding so they could get the game to this point and actually work on the Linux version, which in all likelihood won't make much of a splash financially.

Releasing on consoles meant signing a publishing deal and signing a publishing deal meant agreeing to stipulations, of which included releasing it under as a "new" game and releasing it on console first. Without those they wouldn't have had the deal, they wouldn't have been able to release it on consoles and they wouldn't have as much development budget. Without the console version and the name change to "Max Damage" the chances of you getting the Linux version would no doubt be significantly less.

If you're desperate to play the game as soon as possible, there's nothing to stop you from installing windows to play it until the Linux version is done. It's obviously not ideal for you Linux guys but it's always an option.

Edit: ninja'd by tosh! D:

[ToreadorVampire]

Quick fire replies, since I generally understand and agree with your points:

"Max Damage is Reincarnation".

Sure. That's sucky marketing when you've got people who are still waiting for a named product, to announce development and release of a differently-named product. But of course, they're the same thing.

"Releasing on consoles meant signing a publishing deal and signing a publishing deal meant agreeing to stipulations, of which included releasing it under as a "new" game and releasing it on console first. Without those they wouldn't have had the deal"

This is why I refuse to purchase a console or have any involvement in that landscape. If I write some software which is not under contract then I will release it on my terms, not the terms of the platform. Stainless have produced their own product; having to pay or agree to restrictive terms is completely nuts; the console landscape is broken. It's a shame Ouya didn't do a better job of fixing that.

Lastly, yes. I'm sure I could go buy a Windows licence but I care more about my adherence to my open source ways than I care about C:R/MD/whatever.

This KS excited me because there was an upfront declaration of support for the Linux community. That "support" has failed to impress me.

Anyway - this is not really intended as a gripe post. I genuinely would like some reassurance about the timeline for Linux support. 3 months to release? 6 months? I have had nothing but speculation to go on for the past few years now.

There's not much anyone but nobby can say to answer me here. I understand prioritisation, scheduling projects and the like (i write software for a living and I'm quite good at it). I just want to know - is Linux (and Mac too, apple bods have been waiting just as long as I have) the next-highest priority? Is the next significant release we see (ignoring hotfixes) going to be Linux/Mac or will it be something else?

If you can give me an ETA then even better.

[Leatherface 74]

Given the track record, I'm worried that some other surprise spin-off is going to end up being done before Linux. Like Max Damage 'ported to the Commodore 64 or some such :-/

Hmm ....



I would actully fund a PS1 version of Max Damage :P .

[TwIsTeDMiNd]

That's sucky marketing when you've got people who are still waiting for a named product, to announce development and release of a differently-named product. But of course, they're the same thing (i write software for a living and I'm quite good at it).

When developing game, it doesn't always goes as planned... you should know that as you write software. This is what happened, they've hit some bumps with beezlebub, unfortunately.

Stainless have produced their own product; having to pay or agree to restrictive terms is completely nuts;

Oh come on. Straight linux guy answer. Things are what they are. Signing deal is true to all publishers in the gaming industry. They could have never released boxed copies without signing this deal which resulted in stronger sale which will lead to a much better linux version delivered to you. You are the winner in the end.

This KS excited me because there was an upfront declaration of support for the Linux community. That "support" has failed to impress me.

Games have always been released first on Windows. Reason is simple, it's a much more financially viable market. Then again, we know from the beginning it would come after, you had the choice to accept or refuse that. How can you be disappointed by the support without the game being released?

I genuinely would like some reassurance about the timeline for Linux support. 3 months to release? 6 months? I have had nothing but speculation to go on for the past few years now.

Giving an estimated release date is a tricky subject as numerous previous gaming projects failing to meet release date have shown. I think SG have learnt from their mistakes and surely don't want to reiterate that. Being quiet and BAM! releasing C:MD was a good move.

I just want to know - is Linux (and Mac too, apple bods have been waiting just as long as I have) the next-highest priority?

I think their priority must be something like:

PC release--->fix whats broken from user reports--->GOG DRM-free release--->Mac&Linux

Put DLCs somewhere in that.

[KaptainUfolog]

A lots of words have been said. But there is the only result: GNU/Linux version still doesn't exist, kickstarter duties with physical rewards are still not fulfilled. In order to make a single multiplatform game they just had to use Vulkan API and dont waste much time for inefficient development. I know they have developers who can do it.

[Trent]

You do know the first version of Vulkan was only released 10 months ago? That's like 4 years after the game began development.

Also out of the 5 platforms they want the game released on, Vulkan is only supported by Linux and Windows, it's not supported on Macs, XB1 or PS4 so using Vulkan isn't exactly the solution to a "single multiplatform game". To support all of the platforms they would also need to rendering paths for OpenGL, DirectX and LibGCM anyway. The graphics API isn't the only concern when it comes to multiplatform development either.

[CrapShoot]

I'm still wondering which one will be first: an official port or a wine version that can run the game.

Currently I can get past the splash screen but only when setting MaxVersionGL => 3.2 and possibly installing some directx dlls. Then it will go fullscreen and crash with a page fault on read access. https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38648

Whichever will be the first, I am afraid performance is going to tank again like with C:R. Besides some driver quality issues (AMD closed source and all Mesa Gallium implementations either suck for gaming or have quirks) technically there is little reason for an inherent performance dip, but practically these ports often get little attention and use a translation layer for directx.

Having a Vulkan/OpenGL renderer on Windows would already help tremendously for porting or unofficially running this game to/on other platforms. A good example is doom 2016 which now runs on Linux via Wine without any performance impact due to vulkan and the removal of denuvo. Unfortunately there is little financial gain if any for doing this at this point. Even a crappy port probably wouldn't make much/any money.

However, looking at the future it would probably be important to still deliver what was promised. You probably don't want to alienate a part of your supporters and you probably want to work on solid multi-platform tech to keep your market broad.

So my hopes:

- Within half a year it will boot to the menu screen on wine and within a year it will run although with very crappy fps.

- Paid dlc will be released (new maps and cars) alongside an updated version that contains a few more performance improvements and possibly an alternative renderer.

- At the same time or afterwards the game will be released on Mac OS and Linux (possibly in beta form or with second-tier support).

[Synetearis]

Apart from not delevering said promises like a linux version or physical stuff..

I cant really be mad at stainless.. but look at me i dont got a backer badge nor linux...

Anyhow,. they did try to 3d print some stuff.. which failed.. but hey the intent was there..

As for linux.. i think the 'market' is too small to make any significant financial gains right now,.. you know the ones Stainless needs to keep afloat..

So yeah.. we can bitch all we want.. but from day one Stainless has been engaged with their community and have listened to alot we wanted/had to say..

And looking back at the rough road they had to travel to finally deliver a proper game.. aaand the fact they are keeping the carmageddon franchise alive alltogether..

I can only say hats off..

*Anyhow with the awesome engine/physics they have.. i would have defenitely try to go a different route*

[Arbitrary007]

Being I just got this for Valentines Day and am a Linux user, I'll be happy to test the Linux version once it's ready for testing.

[KaptainUfolog]

As for linux.. i think the 'market' is too small to make any significant financial gains right now,.. you know the ones Stainless needs to keep afloat..

The problem is not in "its hard to make linux port" (really its surprisingly easy if development tools were chosen correctly for the task) or "Whoops! We didn't expect that it will be so expensive to fulfill our duties on physical rewards!". Everyone can make mistake, and mistakes may be very big, but the subject is perpetual mistake making. The problem is in the fact that Stainless Games just wipes their feet on community. They dont even listen what community say to them. Its not "AAAARGH!!! URE DAMN FRAUDSTERS GIMME MY MONEY BACK!!!111oneoneoneleven". Its a number of advises how to solve problems and comments like "okay - i grant you my permission to dont ship my physical rewards but make a good game and fix issues please". It lasts for a long time.