If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

The 2016 reincarnation of Carmageddon! Discuss, mod and troubleshoot!
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MrDeviance
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by MrDeviance »

Maybe I am the only crazy guy that still visits this forum out of reflex, as it seems nobody else bothers with this dead forum.

But if this game series was ever good and if we all truly think we could have done better than Stainless, then how about we fix the game ourselves from scratch.

What does Stainless have to lose? They already lost everything with this latest game, so I don't really see any real benefit in keeping the source code to themselves at this point.

Why not simply release the source code for their latest build that they still have of the game along with all of the assets and maybe some older builds too from back when the pre-alpha game had so much better damage for it's cars and just let us the fans and the modders, fix the game from scratch and try to make it the way we think it would make sense to be.

We can all do our small part to fix it the best we can, with no time constraints and with the utmost passion.

If the community won't bother fixing it either, then there's truly no more hope for this series.

The benefit I can see out of such a move would be the Resurrection in interest for this series.

I don't really get it but to me it seems that the whole carmageddon community has died in the last 2 years.

Maybe I overestimated carmageddon's influence and importance in our society but to me it seemed like a game series that could at least keep a core fanbase alive even after the death of stainless itself, just like doom and duke nukem still manage to have fans interested in these games and in modding or fixing them to this day.

I am in denial here and I just can't accept that all of this community forgot about how awesome carmageddon 1 and 2 used to be and still are to this day.

Reincarnation and Max Damage were flops but this doesn't mean we should all give up on this series entirely.

There is still potential in a fan made carmageddon game, if only Stainless wakes up and gives us a green light, maybe something will get born out of this.
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flykas
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by flykas »

Yeah I visit this page out of reflex too sometimes.

I think it would be a good idea if there is someone interested who knows how to do it. Cuz I feel the code that they did is really very impressive, just some things need to be adjusted to get the full potential and this would be kinds of playground game for many years to come (like C2 or Beamng).

But I also still hope that Stainless aren't done with this franchise. On the other hand, what can they do, they still have to cater to the audience who can't be bothered to learn to drive and be good at it, so I guess the only way to go would be mods.
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by AlexTSK »

I'm just a plebby artist, what am I supposed to do with the source code?
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Trent
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by Trent »

Not going to happen.For a start the game's source isn't just for the game so it would need every reference to other projects, such as Magic, removed and everything fully tested to make sure nothing broke, which is a massive job. Then there's the whole issue that they use licensed middleware such as Umbra and Yebis which would need to be removed or else be in breach of contract and they're pretty core to the game. Then there's the fact their entire build pipeline would need to be replicated to build the game properly and I'm pretty sure they use licensed software in their build pipeline so it would either need to be entirely remade on opensource equivalents or anyone who wanted to build the game would need to buy licenses to the software and set it all up themselves.

Games generally aren't like they were in the old days of Quake anymore where the source code is a self contained entity which can be just given out and recompiled with little fuss, they're monstrosities of intertwining systems under different licenses from different companies. Even UE4, which has the source released in a closed, controlled fashion to those paying a subscription, took a huge amount of work for Epic's dev teams (of which multiple worked on it) and legal team to get all the different parts able to by licensed under that subscription. Complete open sourcing of that would be an entirely different kettle of fish. C:MD's source would be even more of a complicated situation than UE4 because it was never intended to be licensed out to third parties in the first place, let alone open sourced.

If anyone wants to "fix" the game then there's a shit ton which can be done even without the source code which is about a billion times simpler than the things which need the source code to fix. Clearly there's loads of modders eager to fix the game as everyone is releasing tweaks and fixes for all the bits we have access to, right?
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Fr0ntj3
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by Fr0ntj3 »

yes good idea... cant wait for C:mrD edition! looking forward to it
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CzechDeath
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by CzechDeath »

Well it is crickets and frogs over here.

With exception of you of course.

Imagine you are a driver of a bus. And there is one loud passenger going: "THE BUS IS CRASHING RIGHT NOW, WE ALL GONNA DIE! i TOLD YOU ALL NOT TO RIDE THIS BUS, BUT DID YOU LISTEN? NO! I TRIED TO SAVE YOU, IT WAS BUILT BY KRETENS AND THE DRIVER DOES NOT WHAT HE'S DOING!"

When suddenly he goes "GIVE ME BLUEPRINTS TO THIS BUS SO I CAN FIX IT!"

I don't think you would want to even let that kid look at the steering wheel, let alone let him poke under the hood.
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STShotgun
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by STShotgun »

Yeah I think at this point C:MD is pretty much a lost cause. If anything, wouldn't it be better if Carma 1 and 2 had their source code released? Obviously it depends if they even still have the source code and are able to sort out the legal troubles with it, and then it depends if anyone will take the time to develop anything with the source.

But hey, source ports for 1 and 2 with all the fixes and improvements that comes with the treatment is a nice dream at least :p

Also another thing which I'm guessing will be easier for them to sort out, I would love it if Stainless uploaded the old public pre-alphas for C:R as optional builds you can opt into on Steam.

Mainly because, in my opinion, it was the only time when the new Carma had car combat that was actually any fun. I remember enjoying it back then despite the awful performance, bugs and lack of content, but after looking at old videos of the pre-alphas on YT, it actually still looks damn good. Definitely 10x better than in the final game (even after modding C:R/MD for ages and doing all sorts of balancing tweaks - it just can't be saved), so yeah, would be nice to try the old builds again.
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Psyrgery
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by Psyrgery »

I'd just port the old games to consoles for a quick buck.

How feasible would that be Trent?

Carma1 was already ported to mobiles, consoles would easily handle that game
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Trent
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by Trent »

Porting the mobile version of C1 to consoles shouldn't be toooo big a job as it uses the same base engine as Max Damage ans Duels so theoretically cross-platform support would already be available. The key issues would be related to platform integration in the games (e.g. controllers, online systems, etc. in place of the mobile platform stuff), probably shader adjustments depending on how platform agnostic their shader compilation pipeline is and then general QA and cert work.

Porting the original games though? Not a chance in hell. They'd need to be remakes much like the mobile C1 was. For a start the source code, if it's even still complete and compilable, is ancient and nothing like what modern game code should be. They were designed for software rendering on a rendering engine which had completely different ideas about 3d than what modern hardware has ended up as, so it'd need to be gutted and replaced. The base system was designed to run in the world of DOS and Win 95 , archaic system design compared to what modern systems expect. Remaking the games using Beelzebub (or even Unity or Unreal) would no doubt be a shit load less painful than porting the old code

Then there's the content side of things: all the textures are terribly low resolution and designed to look good in limited pallete software rendering, they'd need to be draw overs like stainless did for mobile C1. Levels would need some fixes and adjustments, again like the did with C1 mobile.

Then there's tying all the extra bits in around it like achievements, etc. Obviously it's all less work than designing a brand new game from scratch, but still not exactly a quick and easy money earner. Even C1 mobile want quick and easy and that was mostly already working when they started the project as it had a lot done already for the gizmodo version they based it on.
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Privata
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by Privata »

I doubt they are finished with Carmageddon.

Wishful thinking perhaps.

The best they could do is give there blessing on a fan made spiritual sequel of sorts.

A open source Carmageddon clone would be a lot of work.

I wish Stainless gave Carnageddon the niche sim treatment in terms of DLCs as I would pay for new maps and cars and even game modes.

Or at the very least, if the series is to end then maybe unlock modding support to its fullest.

I dont know about everyone else but I dont much care for leaderbords, and save protection I rather be able to add and remove anything without locking myself out of saving and option changes.
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by CzechDeath »

Yea I think it is pretty tricky. Situation they are in is inherently hidden from us, it is impossible for us fans to know and thus we base our assumptions on other assumptions. Here are mine.

Continuing Carmageddon brand would make sense from perspective of Stainless working pretty hard not only to win their brand back, but also to create new addition and bring beloved game up to date for old and new audiences. It would be shame to just throw it away and make another new brand in carmageddon spirit, as Carmageddon brand has value in recognition and nostalgia.

That recognition is "stained" =D, partially by legic problems and partially by wild imaginations of fans who expected impossible in their heads only to have their dreams inevidebly clash with reality, which is always fault on side of the individual, however it still does project out on sales and promoting or boycoting by "word of mouth" (?)

Nostalgia on the other hand. I know only 2 games that managed to hit the spot were they sutisfied old and new fans. DOOM2016 and HITMAN:World of assassination. Everyone else either did not attract new fans or alienated old. and in the worse case did both. Looking at you DUKE. Not easy thing to do at all.

DLCs I remember were mentioned in twich streams. New carmageddon was suppose to be a platform which was to be further extended with more content.So it would make sense if next thing was indeed a DLC.

Another big thing mentioned in twich streams was workshop support, which could provide good solution for modding.

Over all i would wish for some big patch that first of all fixes that insane mountain of overlooked shit that got broken in CMD, but work in CR.. Then address shit that was always broken. and THEN would be good time for DLCs, but: "Would enough people care?"

Modders are leaving and some didn't even return in the first place. People are angry and concider carma a failure, spreading toxic shit everywhere making it even worse. So would DLC and patches even return some money to stainless? Would any of that shed better light on Carmageddon in the long run? Maybe it is good time for something like that NOW, when things like No man's sky were able to fix their reputation more or less. Maybe that's the new trend, and people will learn to be more forgiving.
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MrDeviance
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by MrDeviance »

CzechDeath wrote:Yea I think it is pretty tricky. Situation they are in is inherently hidden from us, it is impossible for us fans to know and thus we base our assumptions on other assumptions. Here are mine.

Continuing Carmageddon brand would make sense from perspective of Stainless working pretty hard not only to win their brand back, but also to create new addition and bring beloved game up to date for old and new audiences. It would be shame to just throw it away and make another new brand in carmageddon spirit, as Carmageddon brand has value in recognition and nostalgia.


That recognition is "stained" =D, partially by legic problems and partially by wild imaginations of fans who expected impossible in their heads only to have their dreams inevidebly clash with reality, which is always fault on side of the individual, however it still does project out on sales and promoting or boycoting by "word of mouth" (?)


Nostalgia on the other hand. I know only 2 games that managed to hit the spot were they sutisfied old and new fans. DOOM2016 and HITMAN:World of assassination. Everyone else either did not attract new fans or alienated old. and in the worse case did both. Looking at you DUKE. Not easy thing to do at all.


DLCs I remember were mentioned in twich streams. New carmageddon was suppose to be a platform which was to be further extended with more content.So it would make sense if next thing was indeed a DLC.


Another big thing mentioned in twich streams was workshop support, which could provide good solution for modding.


Over all i would wish for some big patch that first of all fixes that insane mountain of overlooked shit that got broken in CMD, but work in CR.. Then address shit that was always broken. and THEN would be good time for DLCs, but: "Would enough people care?"


Modders are leaving and some didn't even return in the first place. People are angry and concider carma a failure, spreading toxic shit everywhere making it even worse. So would DLC and patches even return some money to stainless? Would any of that shed better light on Carmageddon in the long run? Maybe it is good time for something like that NOW, when things like No man's sky were able to fix their reputation more or less. Maybe that's the new trend, and people will learn to be more forgiving.

That is a lot of wishful thinking that is very far from the truth.

Stainless is dead at their choice. I did not kill them, they are acting dead right now and you can tell by looking at this place.

You can call them names, curse them, damn them to hell and they won't reply to you.

They just don't see what we post here anymore. They are done with this forum and I am amazed it's still online at this point.

There is no way you can expect them to make more carmageddon, because it would have to be a situation where they obtain funds magically.

They did a kickstarter to build this game in the first place and I am pretty sure they've spent the little cash they've got to build it.

So how can you reasonably expect them to make more carmageddon dlc or sequels, if their brand is tarnished and their wallet is empty?

You don't have to be a genius to see these things. It's as simple as 1+1=2 they asked for money, they barely got what they asked for and then they built a game that didn't sell and received bad reviews everywhere.

It's a done deal, they flopped in the most classic way possible.

They did a bad game and they barely had money to make it and then it didn't sell, the end.

The only way to recover the brand from such a situation is to have a huuuuuuge ass fanbase for the series, that are willing to undertand that if the game gets sold to a different publisher, a new game could have potential.

The sad part here is that as it can be seen, the community for this game is almost dead and investing in such a dead brand would be suicide for a publisher.

I can't possibly imagine anybody crazy enough to risk buying the carmageddon IP right now and hope to ressurect it.

Nobody is as stupid as Randy Pitchford was, when he shelled out cash for the Duke Nukem IP in a time when it was all but dead.

Look at Duke Nukem now. It was bought by Gearbox and instead of using this ip to make money out of it, they threw it in the darkest drawer they have at their HQ, never to be seen or talked about ever since.

Basically, Duke Nukem is the best example to be constantly given when talking about the fate of carmageddon.

If Gearbox would have never bought Duke Nukem from 3DRealms, 3DRealms would have simply went bankrupt along with the Duke ip.

Surely if both Duke Nukem and Carmageddon would be granted a wish and be given to serious multi billion dev studios, they would become awesome again, I have no doubt about it but as they stand right now, they are doomed to be forgotten.

I commend Stainless for having the guts to dream they can make a comeback and become rich and popular again with this game but sadly, they just didn't have the right team or the money to pull it off.

Their vision for this game was flawed and all over the place as well as their ability to manage their optimization for the game.

What happened here is that they simply tried to make the game and couldn't achieve it the way it was supposed to be due to funds most likely.

They tried to fix things with Max Damage but they just couldn't.

Not only was the game poorly optimized but their vision for how the remake should look, was also flawed in many places.

They just lost a lot of the old fans when they went for the over the top cartoony look and they sure as hell didn't win new fans either.

I think they should just post a goodbye and close up the site. There's nothing more to be said or done.
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by AlexTSK »

MrDeviance wrote:They did a bad game
No, they didnt, objectively speaking Max Damage is not a bad game. There are many factors that lead to the bad reception but a 'bad game' is not one of them. Yes Reincarnation was marred by poor initial performance and underwhelming graphical quality but it was and still is as fun as Carmageddon can be.

Patrick has said on a podcast that they had to rush the game out which was clearly a mistake since first impressions are quite important.

On topic though, we don't need the source code, we need a patch that makes the game completely open to modding, whats the bare minimum we need to patch the game ourselves?

These few things at least:

Make a separate save file that disables achievements if you've modded the game but at least let people save their progress, it makes mods more meaningful.

Fix the normal maps

Fix the headlight shadows

Open up certain options in the Yebis post processing stuff so we can dial in inaccessible effects like Ambient Occlusion.

Adjust the structure of how mods are read by the game so we can release mods for other mods without having to reupload the whole thing to fix one small bug.

Thats just the start, but i'd be very happy to make some stuff again if that patch rolled out.
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MrDeviance
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by MrDeviance »

Such a patch won't happen from Stainless at this point and as you may know, there are lots of games out there that do have huge numbers of fans out of which some are skilled enough and determined enough to actually hack together such types of patches themselves.

The problem that I was describing above among other things is that I am saddened to see just how few of us are left here, asking and poking about with this game.

I would have never expected this game series to be so abandoned by it's fans in such a short time span.

In order to have community patches for a game, you first need to have a community and that's one crucial thing that is apparently gone for this game.

There are not enough of us that care and the little of us that do, don't have the skill or time to fix the game, which is a shame.

Going back to the 3DRealms comparison, seeing how a random fan of 3DRealms born in Denmark (Frederik Schreiber) managed to buy the entire studio after it went bankrupt and it's remaining ips and now represents 3DRealms with his own team and makes games, maybe one day after Stainless goes officially under, it will come a day when it will be affordable enough to buy the Carmageddon ip for cheap and some random fan will try to reboot it maybe 5,10,15,20 years from now, who knows.

I think that's the only hope we have.

Otherwise, Stainless should encourage it's dead community to make a fan carmageddon game and if it's awesome, allow the fans to sell the game and split the cash with Stainless, Black Messa Source style.

Such am business model could provide useful.

They allow the fanbase come up with an unpaid devteam to make a carmageddon game that the community wants and then allow the devteam to sell the game and split the shares with Stainless.
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by YautjaLord »

I still have both games (C:R and C:MD) in my Games library and i actually play C2 even more than later 2 & still enjoy all of them, Mr. D, so i guess i'm the one you didn't expect to reply to you dude, or mate, or however you'd like to be called. Although i would want to fiddle with some or all of the Yebis 3, Umbra and MegaTextures stuff to make game prettier. :) It still looks and plays great on my rig, i actually want to include it in my YT rig review as some sort of gaming benchmark, 1080p and even 4k @ some point among other games i have.

As for modding: i still have a .blend file somewhere on my external HDD of the "vehicle" i plan to finish @ some point in this lifetime too. lol So, long story short: maybe it's flop for you, but it is not such a flop for me, if i still play it to this day. Just my 2 cents/pennies/sheckels/etc...... Cheers all and you Mr. D especially.

P.S. I also visit this site once in a week or 2 and Fan Art & Fan sites especially. So, yeah.... Life's still good when Carma is around? lol jk Cheers.
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by CzechDeath »

ME: "I am wrong, but here is my opinion anyways"

MRD: "YOU'RE WRONG HAH!"

You know who else does that? Absolute fucking retards... =D
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by Privata »

I would not be too surprised if they went for the Battle Royal genre.

I am not a big fan of them but with a Carma twist it could be intresting (as long as classic modes are present as well)

Imagine a map that is made up of multiple areas from CMD and 20 or so cars are dropped on the map (With the balloon powerup)

Everyone has 1 min at first so you either hunt other Players (or AI, because all games need bots IMO) or go Ped harvesting.

Multiple victory conditions could be inplace from the first 3 to finish the race become "safe" and win, so they leave the match (unless they want to stay and risk it all for extra points)

Then you are left with wining by killing every other racer or killing all the peds.

If everyone runs out of time its the player with the most credit that is the survivor.

Of course I would much rather a new game with just classic Carma (C2 style with player death)
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Trent
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by Trent »

Mr. D, didn't you once boast about singlehandedly ruining Interceptor by causing RoTT to be flop? Your mention of them is a bit simplistic. Schreiber wasn't a random fan who decided to buy 3D Realms after it has gone bankrupt; he was a fan who put together a dev team which had lots of interactions and business with Apogee ( RoTT was published by Apogee) well before the investment company which funded Interceptor bought the very active company of Apogee/3D Realms. It's a very different story to "random fan buys bust company".

A lot of this seems to come down to complaining that the community isn't making your perfect Carmageddon for you. As I keep saying whenever you complain about how modders should fix the game for you: you can do it yourself if you really want to, stop complaining that others aren't doing it if you're not going to try yourself.

The issues Alex pointed out aren't fixable by mods, they require a patch by stainless as they are either inaccessible core engine systems, middleware related or require source content, or a combination of the above. No doubt there are people in other gaming communities with the skills to reverse engineer the EXE to solve some of these issues but it would no doubt need extensive work and substantial time which realistically probably isn't worth anyone doing. Things like the headlight shadows and normal maps can only be fixed using the original source assets, the former needs the levels source assetd processed by Umbra with adjusted settings while the latter needs source every single normal map reprocessed through a fixed build pipeline as the missing data in the released build is, ya know, missing. Not things fans can do regardless of skill or desire.

Your whole passive aggressive argument about how Stainless should allow fans to make their own Carma games and sell them is predisposed on the notion that Stainless won't allow it. Have you pitched a game to them? Have you put together a prototype to show them what your game will be like and why they should support your endeavour? I might be wrong but my interactions with stainless have suggested that they would be plenty open to working with fan projects. After all they've had fans involved with Carma projects before, such as with the GoG releases of the old games. It's obviously not going to be as simple as "HURRHURRHURR. I R FAN I MAKE NOO CURMERGADDIN." But if you've got a good project you think Stainless will want their name associated with then I'm sure they'd be open to discussions. You just have to be proactive about it instead just moaning on a forum you constantly claim is dead.
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by JeReMiZ »

One thing sure, fans are still there :)
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MrDeviance
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by MrDeviance »

Trent wrote:Mr. D, didn't you once boast about singlehandedly ruining Interceptor by causing RoTT to be flop? Your mention of them is a bit simplistic. Schreiber wasn't a random fan who decided to buy 3D Realms after it has gone bankrupt; he was a fan who put together a dev team which had lots of interactions and business with Apogee ( RoTT was published by Apogee) well before the investment company which funded Interceptor bought the very active company of Apogee/3D Realms. It's a very different story to "random fan buys bust company".

I know Schreiber much better than you might think. I've talked to him since years before he ever attempted to buy 3drealms.

I've initially supported his ideals for his TCmods but as time passed, he kept failing at everything and refusing to admit his faults.

He was always pointing fingers to somebody else until it became clear that he was incapable but loved attention whoring.

He has lots of problems that I pointed out and when he started making ROTT he was adertising bullshit and constantly trying to put a spin on what he was showing from his team's development.

I indeed fucked Interceptor as a company but not through ill intent but through exposing Schreiber's bullshit at every corner.

I would ruin his bullshit every chance I had up to the point where many people started seeing his bullshit.

I kept calling him out and initially people said I was crazy or that I have something against him but after a while they all more or less agreed with me and started calling him out too.

When the game came out, it flopped bad and he pmd me cursing me and telling me it was all my fault for some reason.

After a while, he finally asked the admin of the forum to join his team and have me banned from the forum the next day and so it happened.

That's just a little inside info on that can of worms that I stopped bothering with since some years now.

The fact that Schreiber bought 3drealms is one of the worst things that could happen to an already dead company but that's a different story.

Trent wrote:
A lot of this seems to come down to complaining that the community isn't making your perfect Carmageddon for you. As I keep saying whenever you complain about how modders should fix the game for you: you can do it yourself if you really want to, stop complaining that others aren't doing it if you're not going to try yourself.

At the moment when I created this topic, there was nobody posting here since months.

I am pretty sure that people being active in this topic right now is much better than it was before I made this topic.

My idea is to kick things in the ass until they either die or they retaliate.

I like creating mess where I see stagnation and mold forming. That's my idea.

Leaving this community to gather mold with nobody posting anything anymore, is the equivalent of deleting the bookmark to this site and forgetting about it.

I sure would love to have people make my fav game for me(who wouldn't?) but I don't expect anybody to do that the way you claim I am.

I am merely trying to see what's left here and it seems that pretty much all is dead, The Game, Stainless, The Community, The Determination, All Hope.

All that is left to happen is see this forum error 404 soon.

Trent wrote:
Your whole passive aggressive argument about how Stainless should allow fans to make their own Carma games and sell them is predisposed on the notion that Stainless won't allow it. Have you pitched a game to them? Have you put together a prototype to show them what your game will be like and why they should support your endeavour? I might be wrong but my interactions with stainless have suggested that they would be plenty open to working with fan projects. After all they've had fans involved with Carma projects before, such as with the GoG releases of the old games. It's obviously not going to be as simple as "HURRHURRHURR. I R FAN I MAKE NOO CURMERGADDIN." But if you've got a good project you think Stainless will want their name associated with then I'm sure they'd be open to discussions. You just have to be proactive about it instead just moaning on a forum you constantly claim is dead.

I am much easier to tolerate when I am being passive aggressive rather than seeing me post unchained, trust me.

I at least opened up the subject here to see what people think of this ideea.

If I had a game to pitch to Stainless, I would have pitched it to them before making this topic but clearly I don't have a game nor a team.

But I am under the impression that people don't think it would be legal to start such a thing and that's why nobody does.

Either that or there's truly nobody interested in making something.

If Stainless came out of their eternal sleep and made an announcement that they are eager to see community made Carmageddon games and publicly encouraged such a move, I think much more people would think about it.

If Stainless likes to play silent and be criptic about their openness to such projects, then surely nobody will even consider making such a game, simply because it's an accepted fact that companies don't usually allow such things.
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CzechDeath
kill boss
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by CzechDeath »

NPD big as a mouobtain!

MrDeviance wrote:I've initially supported his ideals for his TCmods but as time passed, he kept failing at everything and refusing to admit his faults.
People suffering with this disorder concider the horrible shit they do to other people, to be for their own good, or that they have right to behave like that.

I indeed fucked Interceptor as a company but not through ill intent but through exposing Schreiber's bullshit at every corner.
Agsin for their own good, right? But they were too stupid to see the light. Because everybody is just dumber than you. Lack of empaty and conscience allows for absolute ruthlesness, with no remorse. In the end of the day,your victims are at fault, not you, the holy saviour.

At the moment when I created this topic, there was nobody posting here since months.
Came here and saved the day. What would we do without you? You descent up on us from the clouds to show us the path.

My idea is to kick things in the ass until they either die or they retaliate.
Also again no empathy what so ever. Because without your iniciative, this planet would stop turning and people would just stop in their tracks and starve to death. Thank god for you steiring things up, Carrying weight of the world on your very shoulders.

I kept calling him out and initially people said I was crazy or that I have something against him but after a while they all more or less agreed with me and started calling him out too.

When the game came out, it flopped bad and he pmd me cursing me and telling me it was all my fault for some reason.
You keep helping everybody and they keep hating you, Could it be because you are not actually helping? NO of course not, You are the only person alive that is right. No regard for other people, just descruction with no corelation with you.

I am merely trying to see what's left here and it seems that pretty much all is dead, The Game, Stainless, The Community, The Determination, All Hope.
Looking down at the apocalyptic landscape from your fiery chariot in the sky. You tried, but did the silly humans listen? No, they never do. You poor victim.

I am much easier to tolerate when I am being passive aggressive rather than seeing me post unchained, trust me.
You are not only all knowing, but also all powerfull, we should fear you. -> God complex 101.

I at least opened up the subject here to see what people think of this ideea.
Thank you for inventing ideas. untill you came here, nobody even knew what "thinking" is.

Are you listening to your self? Seriously. Do you know what Narcissistic personality disorder is? I'm totally serious now. You should really look in to it. Or atleast don't ever have children, because they will suffer.horribly and you will never even notice.
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MrDeviance
turbo bastard
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by MrDeviance »

CzechDeath wrote:NPD big as a mouobtain!


MrDeviance wrote:I've initially supported his ideals for his TCmods but as time passed, he kept failing at everything and refusing to admit his faults.


People suffering with this disorder concider the horrible shit they do to other people, to be for their own good, or that they have right to behave like that.



I indeed fucked Interceptor as a company but not through ill intent but through exposing Schreiber's bullshit at every corner.


Agsin for their own good, right? But they were too stupid to see the light. Because everybody is just dumber than you. Lack of empaty and conscience allows for absolute ruthlesness, with no remorse. In the end of the day,your victims are at fault, not you, the holy saviour.



At the moment when I created this topic, there was nobody posting here since months.


Came here and saved the day. What would we do without you? You descent up on us from the clouds to show us the path.



My idea is to kick things in the ass until they either die or they retaliate.


Also again no empathy what so ever. Because without your iniciative, this planet would stop turning and people would just stop in their tracks and starve to death. Thank god for you steiring things up, Carrying weight of the world on your very shoulders.



I kept calling him out and initially people said I was crazy or that I have something against him but after a while they all more or less agreed with me and started calling him out too.

When the game came out, it flopped bad and he pmd me cursing me and telling me it was all my fault for some reason.


You keep helping everybody and they keep hating you, Could it be because you are not actually helping? NO of course not, You are the only person alive that is right. No regard for other people, just descruction with no corelation with you.



I am merely trying to see what's left here and it seems that pretty much all is dead, The Game, Stainless, The Community, The Determination, All Hope.


Looking down at the apocalyptic landscape from your fiery chariot in the sky. You tried, but did the silly humans listen? No, they never do. You poor victim.



I am much easier to tolerate when I am being passive aggressive rather than seeing me post unchained, trust me.


You are not only all knowing, but also all powerfull, we should fear you. -> God complex 101.



I at least opened up the subject here to see what people think of this ideea.


Thank you for inventing ideas. untill you came here, nobody even knew what "thinking" is.


Are you listening to your self? Seriously. Do you know what Narcissistic personality disorder is? I'm totally serious now. You should really look in to it. Or atleast don't ever have children, because they will suffer.horribly and you will never even notice.

As you've noticed, I've tolerated your direct insults and pretended I didn't see them a few posts back but this time I'm inclined to invite you to ignore my posts and to go fuck yourself if what I write makes your life so bitter.

To quote every single bullshit drama queen reply you've written in your miserable english above, would be quite a loss of time, since all that you've written is a list of baseless, personal attacks.

If your aim is to curse and insult me online, I should warn you that I'm past forum insults since quite some years now, close to a decade.

I just can't take it serious anymore, sorry to disappoint...

It would be wise of you to notice your limitations before you afford to act smart and attack somebody like me.

Before you act like a drama queen, maybe you should give yourself some self respect and refine your english, or at least use autocorrect because it makes you look like a caveman or a kid that's frustrated with a random person's posts on a forum and feels like trolling and resorting to personal insults.

I've already said what I had to say and I don't feel like defending what I've said from your childish attacks

If you want to attack troll and act like a tranny prostitute that didn't get paid after getting fucked in the parking lot, be my guest but I maintain everything I said above.

Keep boiling in your own juices and maybe you can come up with some more insults.
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Privata
turbo bastard
Posts: 374
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by Privata »

MrDeviance wrote:
CzechDeath wrote:NPD big as a mouobtain!


MrDeviance wrote:I've initially supported his ideals for his TCmods but as time passed, he kept failing at everything and refusing to admit his faults.


People suffering with this disorder concider the horrible shit they do to other people, to be for their own good, or that they have right to behave like that.



I indeed fucked Interceptor as a company but not through ill intent but through exposing Schreiber's bullshit at every corner.


Agsin for their own good, right? But they were too stupid to see the light. Because everybody is just dumber than you. Lack of empaty and conscience allows for absolute ruthlesness, with no remorse. In the end of the day,your victims are at fault, not you, the holy saviour.



At the moment when I created this topic, there was nobody posting here since months.


Came here and saved the day. What would we do without you? You descent up on us from the clouds to show us the path.



My idea is to kick things in the ass until they either die or they retaliate.


Also again no empathy what so ever. Because without your iniciative, this planet would stop turning and people would just stop in their tracks and starve to death. Thank god for you steiring things up, Carrying weight of the world on your very shoulders.



I kept calling him out and initially people said I was crazy or that I have something against him but after a while they all more or less agreed with me and started calling him out too.

When the game came out, it flopped bad and he pmd me cursing me and telling me it was all my fault for some reason.


You keep helping everybody and they keep hating you, Could it be because you are not actually helping? NO of course not, You are the only person alive that is right. No regard for other people, just descruction with no corelation with you.



I am merely trying to see what's left here and it seems that pretty much all is dead, The Game, Stainless, The Community, The Determination, All Hope.


Looking down at the apocalyptic landscape from your fiery chariot in the sky. You tried, but did the silly humans listen? No, they never do. You poor victim.



I am much easier to tolerate when I am being passive aggressive rather than seeing me post unchained, trust me.


You are not only all knowing, but also all powerfull, we should fear you. -> God complex 101.



I at least opened up the subject here to see what people think of this ideea.


Thank you for inventing ideas. untill you came here, nobody even knew what "thinking" is.


Are you listening to your self? Seriously. Do you know what Narcissistic personality disorder is? I'm totally serious now. You should really look in to it. Or atleast don't ever have children, because they will suffer.horribly and you will never even notice.



As you've noticed, I've tolerated your direct insults and pretended I didn't see them a few posts back but this time I'm inclined to invite you to ignore my posts and to go fuck yourself if what I write makes your life so bitter.

To quote every single bullshit drama queen reply you've written in your miserable english above, would be quite a loss of time, since all that you've written is a list of baseless, personal attacks.

If your aim is to curse and insult me online, I should warn you that I'm past forum insults since quite some years now, close to a decade.

I just can't take it serious anymore, sorry to disappoint...

It would be wise of you to notice your limitations before you afford to act smart and attack somebody like me.

Before you act like a drama queen, maybe you should give yourself some self respect and refine your english, or at least use autocorrect because it makes you look like a caveman or a kid that's frustrated with a random person's posts on a forum and feels like trolling and resorting to personal insults.

I've already said what I had to say and I don't feel like defending what I've said from your childish attacks

If you want to attack troll and act like a tranny prostitute that didn't get paid after getting fucked in the parking lot, be my guest but I maintain everything I said above.

Keep boiling in your own juices and maybe you can come up with some more insults.


At least he never used Transphobia to get his point across.

Its fine to be disappointed. You are not the only one and you have every right to be.

But many of us like or even love what Stainless did.

From the start of this venture you were very critical of them using black mail by claiming to be some dread-software-pirate-lord.

What you want Stainless to do would be a large undertaking that would have to go through so much legal crap that it would just not be worth the time investment for them.

If they plan on ending the series now chances are they would sell the brand to someone else (doubtful given how they had to fight to get it back)

If not they would sit on it and do nothing, or you know make another game in the series (like that saints row inspired Carma)
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Psyrgery
speed freak
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by Psyrgery »

I don't know why, but I have a feeling that Stainless is now working on a new Carma game, don't know whether it will be a spinoff (like crashers) or an entry of the main series, but a true, full non-mobile game nonetheless.

Maybe it's just a feeling though.

Also, just wanted to share that feeling as a purpose of sheding some positiveness into this thread, which has gone to shit quite quickly.
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CzechDeath
kill boss
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by CzechDeath »

MR.D it is very rich from you, the ultimate troll and dramaqueen, to call others what YOU are. But that's what NPD people do. Inverting the truth, manipulating, shaming and gaslighting.

I have been ignoring most of nonsence you were sharing with us aswell. Only lately I just could not stay silent anymore. You are asking for attencion, as NPD people do and so you have it, for now.

Quoting was meant for clarity, to be exact and specific, With people suffering NPD one has to be specific, because you tend to stick to one concrete precise, exact argument, say misquote, and try to win argument on that one thing, Since that is usually easier, than argue with cool head and reasonable arguments and logic.

Since you could not attack your own brain vomit, that I quoted for you. You went and tried to wrap this nice encounter around my horrible english, which so predictable it's not even funny.

It is the number one defence of people like you on the internet. You cannot rationaly argue, because you are irracional person. Attacking the emotions. I wonder will you pull out next?

My "Personal attacks" are, unlike yours, not insults. I'm pointing out that you exhibit what is called "God complex" which is side effect of your NPD. That is not an insult. Seriously. I understand you probably see any critisism of what you are showing here as personal attack, but that's your problem. You are responsible for how you experince your life.You are responsible for all that anger, hate and pain, we get to see here and that is just tip of the iceberg I'm sure.

And lastly. I don't hate you - no need to threaten me.

Be at peace.
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Dr. Gonzo
mechanic
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by Dr. Gonzo »

A wonderful idea. Unfortunately Stainless has split the scene, or maybe they are working in secret. Whatever the case, it's hearsay. What isn't, is that we as a community want something done. Carmageddon Max Damage was a good effort, but it felt forced. It didn't feel like the slightly dirty Carmageddon 1 that had subtle pokes and jabs, Max Damage forces it. The gameplay, too, and the size of the vehicle roster. Both, extremely lacking. And the car customization was a fun tool, UNTIL you realize it's all multiplayer oriented and only a few of the new skins and rims can be unlocked in single player. And only two sets of wheels for each car, and only one skin that gives it a new unique look? What a drag. If you made it to where we could actually change the color, apply vinyls, and change rim color, and body color, it'd be way more fun. The range of vehicles, is sadly disappointing too. Sure there were some exciting cars, but they got stale after using them over, and over, and over, and over again. Same with the environments. There could have been way more environments and areas to explore while hunting unique and dangerous opponents, who have you in their sights. Like a remade Bugutti roaring down the straights with a acme damage magnifier, or Wanda Lust gunning the Cullwing down the countryside. Or even OK Stimpson bouncing up and down in a new, more monster truck like Fraud Broko, ready to make you into mincemeat. There could have been so much done, yet it felt rushed and forced. If you add dlc or take time to fix those issues, and fix the damage engine, this game could truly surpass any other game out there
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MrDeviance
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by MrDeviance »

Psyrgery wrote:I don't know why, but I have a feeling that Stainless is now working on a new Carma game, don't know whether it will be a spinoff (like crashers) or an entry of the main series, but a true, full non-mobile game nonetheless.

Maybe it's just a feeling though.


Also, just wanted to share that feeling as a purpose of sheding some positiveness into this thread, which has gone to shit quite quickly.


You have that feeling because they haven't said a single thing in more than a year, so you are hopeful that they might be secretly doing something great but I can't see how they would be able to do that considering they have no more cash to spend.

CzechDeath wrote:MR.D it is very rich from you, the ultimate troll and dramaqueen, to call others what YOU are. But that's what NPD people do. Inverting the truth, manipulating, shaming and gaslighting.

I have been ignoring most of nonsence you were sharing with us aswell. Only lately I just could not stay silent anymore. You are asking for attencion, as NPD people do and so you have it, for now.


Quoting was meant for clarity, to be exact and specific, With people suffering NPD one has to be specific, because you tend to stick to one concrete precise, exact argument, say misquote, and try to win argument on that one thing, Since that is usually easier, than argue with cool head and reasonable arguments and logic.


Since you could not attack your own brain vomit, that I quoted for you. You went and tried to wrap this nice encounter around my horrible english, which so predictable it's not even funny.


It is the number one defence of people like you on the internet. You cannot rationaly argue, because you are irracional person. Attacking the emotions. I wonder will you pull out next?


My "Personal attacks" are, unlike yours, not insults. I'm pointing out that you exhibit what is called "God complex" which is side effect of your NPD. That is not an insult. Seriously. I understand you probably see any critisism of what you are showing here as personal attack, but that's your problem. You are responsible for how you experince your life.You are responsible for all that anger, hate and pain, we get to see here and that is just tip of the iceberg I'm sure.


And lastly. I don't hate you - no need to threaten me.

Be at peace.


It kind of amuses me how you attempted to straighten your tie in this last post, after I called you a kid and a caveman.

It's equal to me if you hate me or not as I hold no ego competition on forums.

I also don't care about your rudimentary english but I do like to point out that you're not even smart or old enough to be able to write proper english, which is a must when it comes to communicating in an international enviroment.

You can't write in english for shit, yet you preach and act all smart ass even though your self expressed CV shows me that you would never pass an interview even if you tried to get hired as a tester for some lame company such as Ubisoft of EA.

Usually, when somebody has communication problems such as yours they tend to lay low and try to blend in, hoping nobody will point out they're not fit for a debate in a language they can't write in, instead of using calamity/war sirens to signal they're presence and their stupidity.

So yeah, your limitations are really showing whether you're intending to show them or not.

To talk this much to you feels like I'm in a train forced to listen to the opinions of a backwards uneducated granny that feels the need to communicate subjects such as interstellar travel whilst using the bible as means to present her most advanced scientific knowledge on the matter.

If you go back to this topic's first post you will be reminded that I created this topic and it had nothing to do with your existence.

I imagine you must dislike me a lot but I do hope you're not as limited as to not realize that I opened this topic in order to expose an ideea that is aimed to discuss the game's state and not our personal opinions regarding each other.

As soon as you're done playing the role of a psychiatrist that's giving me a diagnosis here, maybe we can come back to the subject of this forum's death and the creation of a fanmade game.

You're just asking for attention at this point and you're making a fool of yourself, so be a dear and stop it.
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CzechDeath
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by CzechDeath »

That was incredible mr.D

You've projected so many typical insecurities about yourself. Going now in to comparing age, in to comparing knowledge, or experience of all kinds.

Further pressing on that english angle hoping to inflict damage.

Yet you ignore this very important point. You have personality disorder. With every post, you are showing more and more examples. You are a bully with ego big as a galaxy. Pointing out how everybody's wrong and inexperienced, or not as old and wise as you.

Again listen to yourself. You are acting like terrible human being.

Here see if you recognize yourself:

Below are the most common traits found in people with NPD:


An insatiable appetite for the attention of others

Extreme feelings of jealousy

An expectation of special treatment

Exaggerating achievements, talents, and importance

Extreme sensitivity and a tendency to be easily hurt and to feel rejected with little provocation

Difficulty maintaining healthful relationships

Fantasizing about their own intelligence, success, power, and appearance

An ability to take advantage of others to achieve a goal, without regret or conscience

A lack empathy, or ability to understand and share the feelings of others, and a tendency to disregard others' feelings

A belief that only certain people can understand their uniqueness

A tendency to consider themselves as skilled in romance

Responding to criticism with anger, humiliation, and shame

Seeking out praise and positive reinforcement from others

An expectation that others will agree with them and go along with what they want

Whatever they crave or yearn for must be "the best"

Others may see narcissists' goals as selfish ones. They may describe the person as self-obsessed, arrogant, tough-minded, and lacking emotion.

Do you see now what you are doing?
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Fr0ntj3
speed freak
Posts: 524
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:31 pm

If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by Fr0ntj3 »

MrDeviance wrote:
You're just asking for attention at this point and you're making a fool of yourself, so be a dear and stop it.
pot kettle .

fanmade game will never happen, unless you do it yourself, but the mod thread you started is already death so i doubt it.

forum is death, let it rip.
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MrDeviance
turbo bastard
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by MrDeviance »

CzechDeath wrote:That was incredible mr.D

You've projected so many typical insecurities about yourself. Going now in to comparing age, in to comparing knowledge, or experience of all kinds.


Further pressing on that english angle hoping to inflict damage.


Yet you ignore this very important point. You have personality disorder. With every post, you are showing more and more examples. You are a bully with ego big as a galaxy. Pointing out how everybody's wrong and inexperienced, or not as old and wise as you.


Again listen to yourself. You are acting like terrible human being.


Here see if you recognize yourself:


Below are the most common traits found in people with NPD:




An insatiable appetite for the attention of others

Extreme feelings of jealousy

An expectation of special treatment

Exaggerating achievements, talents, and importance

Extreme sensitivity and a tendency to be easily hurt and to feel rejected with little provocation

Difficulty maintaining healthful relationships

Fantasizing about their own intelligence, success, power, and appearance

An ability to take advantage of others to achieve a goal, without regret or conscience

A lack empathy, or ability to understand and share the feelings of others, and a tendency to disregard others' feelings

A belief that only certain people can understand their uniqueness

A tendency to consider themselves as skilled in romance

Responding to criticism with anger, humiliation, and shame

Seeking out praise and positive reinforcement from others

An expectation that others will agree with them and go along with what they want

Whatever they crave or yearn for must be "the best"

Others may see narcissists' goals as selfish ones. They may describe the person as self-obsessed, arrogant, tough-minded, and lacking emotion.



Do you see now what you are doing?


No, I don't see it. Also how can you expect me to see what I am doing wrong if you yourself are convinced that I suffer from NPD?

Wouldn't it be useless to ask me that question if I were to really suffer from NPD?

That question doesn't resolve a thing. If I do indeed suffer from NPD unknowingly, then surely I won't agree with your citique.

However, at the same time, I might not suffer from NPD but I would still chose not to agree with you just because I don't want to feed your troll.

So no matter what the reality may be, I won't agree with you so you better stop trying to position yourself above me in this debate because it might quite happen to be that you're suffering from NPD and instead projecting it on me.

This is not the place for such a debate and you know it but you love to vent those frustrations. Life might be really tough down a your place.
"Calm down baby, have piece of cheese."
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CzechDeath
kill boss
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Location: Prague

If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by CzechDeath »


Spoiler:



MrDeviance wrote:
CzechDeath wrote:That was incredible mr.D

You've projected so many typical insecurities about yourself. Going now in to comparing age, in to comparing knowledge, or experience of all kinds.


Further pressing on that english angle hoping to inflict damage.


Yet you ignore this very important point. You have personality disorder. With every post, you are showing more and more examples. You are a bully with ego big as a galaxy. Pointing out how everybody's wrong and inexperienced, or not as old and wise as you.


Again listen to yourself. You are acting like terrible human being.


Here see if you recognize yourself:


Below are the most common traits found in people with NPD:




An insatiable appetite for the attention of others

Extreme feelings of jealousy

An expectation of special treatment

Exaggerating achievements, talents, and importance

Extreme sensitivity and a tendency to be easily hurt and to feel rejected with little provocation

Difficulty maintaining healthful relationships

Fantasizing about their own intelligence, success, power, and appearance

An ability to take advantage of others to achieve a goal, without regret or conscience

A lack empathy, or ability to understand and share the feelings of others, and a tendency to disregard others' feelings

A belief that only certain people can understand their uniqueness

A tendency to consider themselves as skilled in romance

Responding to criticism with anger, humiliation, and shame

Seeking out praise and positive reinforcement from others

An expectation that others will agree with them and go along with what they want

Whatever they crave or yearn for must be "the best"

Others may see narcissists' goals as selfish ones. They may describe the person as self-obsessed, arrogant, tough-minded, and lacking emotion.



Do you see now what you are doing?



No, I don't see it. Also how can you expect me to see what I am doing wrong if you yourself are convinced that I suffer from NPD?

Wouldn't it be useless to ask me that question if I were to really suffer from NPD?

That question doesn't resolve a thing. If I do indeed suffer from NPD unknowingly, then surely I won't agree with your citique.

However, at the same time, I might not suffer from NPD but I would still chose not to agree with you just because I don't want to feed your troll.

So no matter what the reality may be, I won't agree with you so you better stop trying to position yourself above me in this debate because it might quite happen to be that you're suffering from NPD and instead projecting it on me.

This is not the place for such a debate and you know it but you love to vent those frustrations. Life might be really tough down a your place.
"Calm down baby, have piece of cheese."





Yes exactly what person suffering NPD would say. Invert what opposition says play victim card. That's the thing you know? NPD people are not only unaware but mostly in denile. It is always the other people against you.

Look man, I have lived around enough NPD people to know for sure.

You are it.

No matter what articles I'd link from now on, no matter what arguments I would provide, evidence even, it would not matter to you. It would always gat back to "NOT ME U!"

OK that's enough, Imma go back to ignoring you,

I wish for you to get better, but you wont.
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Fireman
motorised death
Posts: 781
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 8:06 am

If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

Post by Fireman »

Still hilarous stuff Mr. D. Well played.