How I got into the vehicular destruction genre...

[yurrenstein12]

Since I am getting inpatient with waiting for Carmageddon: Max Damage, I want to talk about the game that got me into the vehicular destruction genre. See, most people got into the genre with games like Interstate ’72, Twisted Metal, Vigilante 8 and of course… Carmageddon, but I never got the chance to play those games when I was young. So what was my first vehicular destruction experience? Well, it’s a game not many people know, called Cel Damage.

(Prepare for A LOT of text! :P)

Cel Damage is a vehicular combat game, released in for the original Xbox and GameCube in 2001. It was developed by Pseudo Interactive and published by EA Games. (Fun fact: Pseudo Interactive also developed the Full Auto games and the canceled Crude Awakening.)

(A drastically changed version named Cel Damage Overdrive was released on PS2 a few months after that (Europe only) by Play It, but they changed a lot of the of things which ruined the game. This shitty version got an HD version on PS Vita, PS3, PS4 and Xbox One, called Cel Damage HD, which is even shittier (messed up sound effects). Don't bother with these versions, just play the original Xbox and/or GameCube versions instead.)

Cel Damage is not just a vehicular destruction game. In fact, it is a very unique one. The game uses cel-shaded graphics to create a cartoon look and it has it’s own unique cartoon physics. The game also offers tons of very over the top weapons to destroy your opponents.

Like in Carmageddon 2, this game also has car splitting. You can split them by smashing them with a giant axe, chainsaw, buzz saws, cleavers, etc. Cars can also catch fire and burn up, or get frozen by a freeze ray and then shattered against a wall. There are tons of weird and fun ways to destroy your opponents. Seriously, the cartoon physics in this game are superb.

This game is very, VERY chaotic by the way, since most weapons are instadeath. This sounds frustrating, but it actually isn’t, since you will respawn within 5 seconds every time you die. The only flaw this game has is that you can be killed immediately after you spawn.

The game has a total of 10 drivers (4 are unlockable), which each their own unique vehicle and special weapon. The game has 12 maps to play and 26 weapons (all locked in the beginning) to destroy your opponents with. There are 3 different game modes in the game: Smack Attack, Gate Relay and Flag Rally.

Smack attack is the main mode of the game. The first to gain 500 smack points wins. You can get Smack points by simply smashing (smacking) or destroying your opponents.

Gate Relay is your standard checkpoint race mode, but with only 2 checkpoint gates, and 20 laps. (And of course, there are the over the top weapons.)

In Flag Rally you must collect 4 flags and drive them to the flag pole to win (all 4 at the same time). This is easily the most frustrating mode in the game, because you die very easily.

The game also has local split screen multiplayer up to 4 players. This makes Cel Damage extremely fun to play with friends. This is actually something I want to see in Carmageddon: Max Damage in the future, if possible.



Specially for this post, I recorded some footage of the game on my Xbox to show you guys some gameplay of the game (and my awesome skills :P) playing Smack Attack on extreme difficulty on custom settings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q1lBNRqpQU

So, what do you guys think about this game? Also, what was the first vehicular destruction game you guys played? :)

UPDATE: Go to the first post on page 3 for my full Xbox/Gamecube vs. PS2/HD comparison.

[Xtreemo]

Vigilante 8. It's my favourite, along with Carmageddon.

Also, I've played Destruction Derby 64 (the only DD I ever played) and I love that title too.

Ah, the memories from the childhood...

[Trent]

Interesting fact: Pseudo Interactive is actually part of Carmageddon history. Back during the dark years when Carmageddon was owned by SCi/Eidos, they got Pseudo to develop a new game in the series called Crude Awakening.

The game was cancelled before it was announced or shown off, but some artwork was leaked from it and it looked like it would be a very different game to Classic Carma, probably an open world story based adventure type structure, with massive boss type enemies. Seemed a bit like they were going for middle ground between Carma and Twisted Metal.

Edit: Silly me, I had skimmed over your note about this in your post, doh! Ignore me!

[yurrenstein12]

Vigilante 8. It's my favourite, along with Carmageddon.

Also, I've played Destruction Derby 64 (the only DD I ever played) and I love that title too.

Hmm, never heard of that game (Destruction Derby 64). I did knew about Vigilante 8 back then, but I never got to play it. I actually do have Vigilante 8: 2nd Offense for my Dreamcast though. Pretty fun game.

Silly me, I had skimmed over your note about this in your post, doh! Ignore me!

(Nope, not gonna ignore you, Trent. ;P) Yeah, I've read about it yesterday when I was browsing the forums. It looked pretty interesting. Really a shame that it was never released. Pseudo Interactive was a very creative studio.

[Fr0ntj3]

My first pc came with destruction derby pre installed, so that was as much destruction you could get those days, and my first pc game i owned was grand prix 2, which also had some damage stuff. I remember turning it off and on just before hitting other cars, to get them out of the race.

['80s Time Warp]

Interesting. I'd never played Cel Damage. Looks pretty cool.

Warning: Potential Incoherent Ramblings below

My first Auto-Combat experience (if this counts) was the demo of Demolition Racer on the original Playstation around 2000. This was followed by Destruction Derby 2 & Raw. Destruction Derby Raw is still to this day one of my favourite original playstation games. I still fire up the Playstation 2 every now and then to play it.

A few years later I got into Vigilante 8 & V8: Second Offense. After getting into PC games, Interstate '76 & '82 soon joined. I loved the retro atmosphere from both the Interstate & V8 series. Whilst most players disliked the simplified damage, vehicle upgrades & weapon customization in I'82, I still thoroughly enjoyed it. The stylized concept sketches that were shown while I'82 was installing became my desktop background for many years to come. These games, coupled with Grand Theft Auto Vice City massively fed into my obsession/addiction with retro settings, especially anything in the '70s or '80s.

Other familiar names that soon joined the collection between PC & Console included:

• Bandits Phoenix Rising


• Test Drive Eve of Destruction (Driven to Destruction)


• RoadKill


• Crashday


• Flatout (1, 2 & UC)


• Hard Truck Apocalypse

It wouldn't be too long before my first Carmageddon experience (TDR 2000, followed by Carmageddon II). Although - I never got to play Carmageddon 1 until the GOG release after the Kickstarter Campaign for Carmageddon Reincarnation.

[STShotgun]

Goddamn I remember Cel Damage. Good times :D

[Wall of text incoming!]

One of the first car combat games I ever played (and definitely one of my favourites) was Demolition Racer for the PS1. It was essentially a spiritual successor to Destruction Derby 2 where you're racing crazy fast around tracks while trying to destroy as much as the opposition (15 other cars at once) as you can without dying (by the end of good races you pretty much are required to be a burning wreck!)

Winning a race doesn't just involve coming in first place since you're also required to get as many points as you can from dealing damage to the other opponents, where simple hits can range from 5 to 50 points depending on how hard you hit, spinning out opponents after smashing them gets you a good amount of points, also by sending them into walls, starting an engine fire when they reach a low amount of health, actually wrecking the car altogether (both gets you 75 points) and finally by landing on top of them which gets you a whopping 500 points, as well as instakilling them.

Your total amount of points after the race is then given a multiplier depending on your race position (1st place has a 25x multiplier, 2nd has 22x, 3rd has 20x, etc), and then your final point score will determine your position, so it's an interesting way of doing things as you pretty much still have a chance of winning even if you didn't come in first place in the race.

Though it did have other game modes such as 'Chase' which is typical racing, a version of racing called 'Chicken' where you're going the other way from the other cars, plus it had the obligatory arena mode where you have to be the last one standing (literally called Last Man Standing), plus a mode called 'Suicide' where you actually have to be the first driver to die in order to win. :p

The levels also contained powerups such as temporary invincibility, partial repairs, bonus crates that give you a certain amount of extra points, plus an explosive crate that does damage to you and nearby cars.

Plus it was one of the earliest games I know that had car customisation, where two parts of the paint scheme can be changed to any other colour, as well as choosing a logo out of many that goes on the roof of your car.

It also had an awesome industrial/rock soundtrack by bands such as Fear Factory (with tracks written specifically for the game - also was my introduction to FF), Empirion, Cirrus, and Tommy Tallarico.

Here's some gameplay of it (no music during the race for whatever reason, but hey ho :p).

[yurrenstein12]

My first pc came with destruction derby pre installed, so that was as much destruction you could get those days, and my first pc game i owned was grand prix 2, which also had some damage stuff. I remember turning it off and on just before hitting other cars, to get them out of the race.

My first Auto-Combat experience (if this counts) was the demo of Demolition Racer on the original Playstation around 2000. This was followed by Destruction Derby 2 & Raw. Destruction Derby Raw is still to this day one of my favourite original playstation games. I still fire up the Playstation 2 every now and then to play it.

Hmm, a lot of you guys are talking about those Demolition Derby series. To be honest, I never heard of it. I will do some research about those games some time.

A few years later I got into Vigilante 8 & V8: Second Offense. After getting into PC games, Interstate '76 & '82 soon joined. I loved the retro atmosphere from both the Interstate & V8 series. Whilst most players disliked the simplified damage, vehicle upgrades & weapon customization in I'82, I still thoroughly enjoyed it. The stylized concept sketches that were shown while I'82 was installing became my desktop background for many years to come. These games, coupled with Grand Theft Auto Vice City massively fed into my obsession/addiction with retro settings, especially anything in the '70s or '80s.

Other familiar names that soon joined the collection between PC & Console included:

Bandits Phoenix Rising

Test Drive Eve of Destruction (Driven to Destruction)

RoadKill

Crashday

Flatout (1, 2 & UC)

Hard Truck Apocalypse

I have played Vigilante 8: 2nd Offense on Dreamcast, and also the Interstate games, but never really got into them that much. Good games though.

I've read about Roadkill multiple times. Looks kinda interesting. Maybe I will buy it for my Xbox some time.

Heard a lot about the Flatout games. Not really vehicular destruction games from what I have seen, but good games. Not going to get them though, because they don't have local multiplayer.

Also heard about Test Drive: EoD, but never played it.

Never heard about the rest of the titles you mentioned. I need to do some research I guess. (I do know Demolition Racer though. Read my response to STShotgun below.)

Goddamn I remember Cel Damage. Good times :D

Wow, an actual living being that knows about Cel Damage! :P

Which version did you play? The superior Xbox/GameCube version(s), or the crappy PS2/HD version(s)?

(I am not saying that the PS2/HD versions are bad though, but they are very boring in comparison to the Xbox/GameCube versions.)

One of the first car combat games I ever played (and definitely one of my favourites) was Demolition Racer for the PS1.

Aah, Demolition Racer. I actually played Demolition Racer: No Exit on the Dreamcast a few years back. Fun game. Never played the original though.

[yurrenstein12]

(Prepare for A LOT of text! :P)

Warning: Potential Incoherent Ramblings below

[Wall of text incoming!]

Coincidence? :P

[STShotgun]

Which version did you play? The superior Xbox/GameCube version(s), or the crappy PS2/HD version(s)?

(I am not saying that the PS2/HD versions are bad though, but they are very boring in comparison to the Xbox/GameCube versions.)

Oh wow, well I played Cel Damage Overdrive on the PS2 (never owned the other consoles), so yeah :p

Also almost forgot, there's also Crash 'n' Burn for the PS2/Xbox which is also one of my favourites. I guess you can say it's a mix between Demolition Racer and Flatout where you start with 15 other cars and usually by the end there's only a few left (all the other wrecks stay on the track and end up becoming obstacles, also damaged cars tend to leak oil which can be ignited so half of the track ends up being on fire too :p)

It also had a big amount of car customisation too which was good, plus a fairly decent soundtrack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBseRoXink

[yurrenstein12]

Oh wow, well I played Cel Damage Overdrive on the PS2 (never owned the other consoles), so yeah :p

Here, look at my Xbox gameplay and then at the PS2 gameplay. The PS2 version has health bars and the cars move a lot slower. Destroying cars takes forever and a lot of weapons have become useless. (There are waaaay more things I can talk about when it comes to the PS2 version, but I'm not gonna bother. :P)

My Xbox gameplay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q1lBNRqpQU

PS2 gameplay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2NWQCjTsEc

Also almost forgot, there's also Crash 'n' Burn for the PS2/Xbox which is also one of my favourites.

Hmm, looks interesting. I might pick it up some day for my Xbox. :)

[Psyrgery]

How I got into...

Well, let's just say that I tried to ram the other cars on racing games, hitting them head-on going in the opposite direction of the track. I remember doing it in a DOS Nascar game, and then TOCA Touring Car game out and it was great to crash into other cars.

I then played Destruction Derby 2, which became my favourite for years.

I did not want to play Carmageddon until many years later because I thought it was too evil (yeah, thanks Spanish media!), but when I got to play a demo of Carmageddon2 and later got a pirate copy years ago (omg!) I became addicted to it.

[yurrenstein12]

Well, let's just say that I tried to ram the other cars on racing games, hitting them head-on going in the opposite direction of the track.

Cel Damage may be my first "vehicular combat" experience, but if we're gonna count race games where you can crash (into) other cars, then Burnout 3: Takedown is my first experience. Good times. I still play it to this day (same with Cel Damage).

I did not want to play Carmageddon until many years later because I thought it was too evil (yeah, thanks Spanish media!)

Haha, I know that feeling. I thought the same about the GTA games back in the day. :P

['80s Time Warp]

I've read about Roadkill multiple times. Looks kinda interesting. Maybe I will buy it for my Xbox some time.

I got Roadkill dirt cheap, and found it to be great fun. The car handling is a little weird but it was still great fun. There was a huge range of vehicles, offensive weapons, and a lot of different defensive weapons too. I loved the Art Style, and the licenced part of the soundtrack was perfect (April Wine, Judas Priest, King Kobra, Foreigner, Great White, Blue Oyster Cult, etc). Peds could get impaled on the car. The Tornados were a great extreme weather event.

Spoiler: Montage Video

Some of you might have noticed a some similarities between the style of my work and the style of Roadkill. That is not a co-incidence.

Heard a lot about the Flatout games. Not really vehicular destruction games from what I have seen, but good games. Not going to get them though, because they don't have local multiplayer.

Well, demolition derbies were a hefty part of the Flatout series, so that was why I included them.

Also heard about Test Drive: EoD, but never played it.

I consider Test Drive Eve of Destruction a spiritual successor to the Destruction Derby series. There were lots of real world events including trailer races, Figure of 8, School Bus Races, Car Soccer etc. There were lots of made up events too, such as the suicide race where one half of the pack drives one way round the track, and the other half drives in the opposite direction for maximum destruction.

Watching the driver getting thrown around the car in massive collisions was a nice touch and the dashboard/driver camera reflected that movement.

Spoiler: Montage Video

[yurrenstein12]

I got Roadkill dirt cheap, and found it to be great fun. The car handling is a little weird but it was still great fun. There was a huge range of vehicles, offensive weapons, and a lot of different defensive weapons too. I loved the Art Style, and the licenced part of the soundtrack was perfect (April Wine, Judas Priest, King Kobra, Foreigner, Great White, Blue Oyster Cult, etc). Peds could get impaled on the car. The Tornados were a great extreme weather event.

Sounds great. I saw it has 4 player local split screen as well. Defenitely going to get it! :)

Well, demolition derbies were a hefty part of the Flatout series, so that was why I included them.

I never played a Flatout game, so I didn't know that. All I knew was that it was a Burnout 3-ish game and that it has a game mode where you have to launch your driver through rings of fire and stuff.

I consider Test Drive Eve of Destruction a spiritual successor to the Destruction Derby series. There were lots of real world events including trailer races, Figure of 8, School Bus Races, Car Soccer etc. There were lots of made up events too, such as the suicide race where one half of the pack drives one way round the track, and the other half drives in the opposite direction for maximum destruction.

Sounds interesting, but unfortunately it's not available on Xbox in Europe and I don't own a PS2, so I will probably never play it.

[flykas]

Well, I think the first game vehicular combat for me was Twisted metal and demolition derby. Then I didin't even own a computer or console, I'd to the playroom, where pay money to play on console. Back then it was incredible, something insane, now I wouldn't play these games:] So later when I had a pc I discovered Carma 2 and it was amazing too, but it still is. I don't like vehicular combat games without physics, like twited metal or cell damage. Also there is a game that I play A LOT. It was 1nsane. It was off road game but there was a lot of mayhem and car combat. Also it was only game that could compete with carma 2 in terms of damage. It seems that not a lot of people know that game, but it was the first game to have soft body physics (in 2000) like beamNG has now.

[Synetearis]

Ooow yes,.. 1nsane! Played that alot.. and almost all the other games mentioned,.

My top 5 is probably;

Carma

Interstate 76

1nsane

Flatout

Destruction Derby

[yurrenstein12]

Also there is a game that I play A LOT. It was 1nsane. It was off road game but there was a lot of mayhem and car combat. Also it was only game that could compete with carma 2 in terms of damage. It seems that not a lot of people know that game, but it was the first game to have soft body physics (in 2000) like beamNG has now.

Ooow yes,.. 1nsane! Played that alot.. and almost all the other games mentioned,.

Hmm, never heard of 1nsane. Looks interesting.

[Espyo]

Odd... back when the forum was younger, we had threads on vehicular combat games, and nobody ever mentioned Cel Damage. And now everybody's saying that they've played it!

Well, all this talk about the game made me want to play it. And the box is literally 40cm away from me. ...Be right back.

[yurrenstein12]

And now everybody's saying that they've played it!

Everybody? From what I have seen, me and STShotgun are the only ones in this thread that played it. :P

The difference is that I played the vastly superior Xbox version, and Shotgun the more crappy PS2 version.

Speaking of versions, which version have you played / are you playing?

[Espyo]

Hey, 2 is certainly bigger than 0!

I initially played the PS2 version at a friend's house. Some years later, at home, I bought it for my trusty GameCube. That's when I learned that the two aren't quite the same. The PS2 version has a health bar and an extra level, which really confused me when I jumped into the GameCube one... I've always wanted to play back the PS2 version, but tell me, why do you think it's so crappy? Maybe I'm blinded by nostalgia and I'm forgetting some important nasty detail in the PS2 version. Also, as far as I know, the Xbox and GameCube versions are identical. (Fun fact, I snooped through the GameCube version's files and found data for the Xbox version!)

[yurrenstein12]

Hey, 2 is certainly bigger than 0!

I initially played the PS2 version at a friend's house. Some years later, at home, I bought it for my trusty GameCube. That's when I learned that the two aren't quite the same. The PS2 version has a health bar and an extra level, which really confused me when I jumped into the GameCube one... I've always wanted to play back the PS2 version, but tell me, why do you think it's so crappy? Maybe I'm blinded by nostalgia and I'm forgetting some important nasty detail in the PS2 version. Also, as far as I know, the Xbox and GameCube versions are identical. (Fun fact, I snooped through the GameCube version's files and found data for the Xbox version!)

I’m going to tell you the full story (because I can :P):

The game was first an Xbox exclusive launch title, but was later ported to the GameCube. These versions are pretty much identical, other than some slightly better graphics on Xbox.

The game was criticized for being too difficult and frustrating (which I still don’t understand). The game didn’t sell well, due to poor marketing of EA Games and the mixed reviews of critics.

A few months later, the publisher Play It! got their hands on the license and a PlayStation 2 release was planned to release soon, under the name Cel Damage: Overdrive (Europe only). A LOT had to be changed to get better critic reviews and to make it work properly on the weaker PlayStation 2 hardware. Ironically, reviews and sales of Cel Damage: Overdrive where even worse.

In 2014, Finish Line Games got their hands on the license and released an HD version on PS3, PS4, PS Vita and Xbox One, called Cel Damage HD. This is a upscaled port of the PS2 version. However, the voices and sound effects are messed up (some effects are even missing), making this version even worse than the PS2 version.

---

So what is the difference between the Xbox/Gamecube version and the PS2 version? Well, here’s the complete comparison:

- The Xbox/Gamecube version has unique death animations, like cars splitting in half or being on fire. All of these are removed from the PS2 version (due to hardware limitations). Instead, the PS2 version only has a 'cloud' explosion.

- In the Xbox/Gamecube version, pretty much all weapons and hazards are instadeath, making it really chaotic (which I really like). The PS2 version got rid of that and replaced it with health bars, which makes destroying opponents a long, boring chore. Also, all hazards and a lot of the weapons are pointless/useless because of this. (For example: the Nuclear Mine is one of the most powerful weapons in the Xbox/Gamecube version, while it is completely useless in the PS2 version. Also, the dynamite house in the Wild Wooly West level kills you instantly in the Xbox/GameCube version, while it does almost nothing in the PS2 version.)

- In the the Xbox/Gamecube version, car parts bounce all over the place when cars are destroyed. In the PS2 version, they clip through the ground. (Again due to hardware limitations.)

- In the level Swamp Stomp in the the Xbox/Gamecube version, you can swing on vines to reach the platforms in the trees. This is removed from the PS2 version, which makes reaching the platforms a real pain.

- The cars are a LOT slower in the PS2 version. (The speed is based on the difficulty settings. The higher the difficulty, the faster the cars.) The lowest speed in the Xbox/Gamecube version is the highest speed in the PS2 version.

- In the Xbox/Gamecube version, you have to complete all levels on all modes with all 10 characters to unlock everything in the game. In the PS2 version, you get everything much earlier, which makes completing the game pointless.

- The Xbox/Gamecube version has an "Unlock mode". If you customize the settings, Unlock mode will be turned off automatically. This prevents the player from using custom settings to unlock weapons, characters and levels. This feature is removed in the PS2 version, which allows the player to cheat (which sucks).

- The PS2 version added turbo boost and stunts to the game. You gain turbo boost by stunting forward. If you stunt left or right, you are invincible for a short time. You can also score bonus smacks by smacking opponents while stunting. All of these features make the player way too overpowered.

- In the Xbox/Gamecube version, the standard required amount of smacks in Smack Attack to win is 500. In the PS2 version, this is changed to 300.

- In the Xbox/Gamecube version, you need to bring 4 flags at the same time to the flagpole in Flag Rally to win. In the PS2 version, this changed by adding a required amount of points. You gain points by bringing flags to the flagpole.

- In the Xbox/Gamecube version, Gate Relay only has 2 gates and 20 laps (1 gate is 1 lap). In the PS2 version, this changed to 4 gates and 8 laps. (1x 4 gates is 1 lap.)

- The PS2 version adds 1 extra level (Boss Bash) and 5 extra weapons to the game (Scimitar, Javelin, TNT Sheep, Cloak and TNT Sheep). The extra level is fun, while the extra weapons are mostly copies of other weapons, and/or are pretty much useless.

- The PS2 version also has different car models, which now have a damage model. Personally, I don't really like it. (At least, not in this game.)

- The handling of the cars is slightly different in the PS2 version.

- The physics of the cars is slightly diffferent in the PS2 version due to the addition of the stunt feature.

- The spring weapon has a danger zone in the Xbox/GameCube version. If you are in the danger zone, you will get hit. If the player with the spring lands exactly on top of an opponent, the player will get some extra points/smacks. All of these features of the spring are removed from the PS2 version.

- The PS2 version added walking robots in the space levels that give you your special weapon when you hit them.

---

These are all the differences that I am aware of. That's a lot of stuff, don't you think?

[Espyo]

That was a really interesting read. Thanks for taking the time to write it up! After all that, I can see why the PS2 version isn't as great... And as I was reading through, more and more was coming back to me from the old days.

Agreed, I don't understand what's so frustrating and difficult about the game. Landing first place on the easiest difficulty is pretty simple, and getting on the top 3 on the hardest difficulty is an everyday occurrence. I remember some critics saying that half of the time, it's a race to the best weapon, which I agree. Who wants the bloody spring, or the portable hole? Yawn, give me a nuclear bomb or a rocket instead!

The hardware limitation things are a real pain... Those bits of juice really add to the game's quality; I can barely imagine having them removed.

I liked the health bar at the time, but now that you're explaining it, I take it back!

So wait, in the PS2 version you can make your vehicles even slower? After trying the medium and high speeds in the X/G version, I found the slowest one to be a bit dull, and you're telling me the PS2 can go even slower?

Not sure if I agree with you on the unlock system. To me, I played through all levels, in all modes, with all characters, half because I wanted to unlock everything, half because I liked playing the game, so might as well mix it up to further advance my unlock progress. But it really is a massively repetitive chore having to do everything with everyone... I think it'd be less frustrating to unlock stuff sooner.

Ah yes, I remember the stunt feature now. I actually loved it! But if you're telling me only the player can use it, then yes, I agree, it's overpowered.

I like the X/G flag mode better. While playing for 100%, I've had Flag Rally races that lasted way over 20 minutes, and some that literally lasted 10 seconds. It was pretty funny.

Ah yes, the extra level. Easily one my favorite extra levels in any game ever, even though it was just a nonsense mash. I still absolutely adored the concept, and even today hope that some games do something similar. The "pure chaos" factor is more important than the "logical level design" factor in these cases, I'd say. I don't recall any of the extra weapons, though... Did you have to do something special to unlock them? Maybe my friend hadn't unlocked them.

The damage model makes sense if the game has HP, and it's a nice replacement for all of the missing death animations and debris. Wouldn't make much sense to include it on the X/G versions, so *shrug*.

Oh, one more thing I remember being different! ...If I'm not mistaken. The character selection screen is vastly different, with a 3D menu. If I recall correctly, you could even combine characters and vehicles. Please tell me I didn't imagine this! I remember being very confused as a child, after I got my copy, as to what happened to the 3D menu. Did I imagine it? Was it from the PS2 version and I just didn't realize they were different? Was it from an early build of the game?

[yurrenstein12]

No problem! ;)

So wait, in the PS2 version you can make your vehicles even slower? After trying the medium and high speeds in the X/G version, I found the slowest one to be a bit dull, and you're telling me the PS2 can go even slower?

Yeah, the speed of the cars on Easy in the Xbox/GameCube is the same as the speed of the cars on Hard in the PS2 version. The speed on Easy and Normal in the PS2 version is not possible in the Xbox/GameCube version, and the speed on Normal and Hard in the Xbox/GameCube version is not possible in the PS2 version.

I still have both the Xbox and PS2 versions. I play both versions on Hard, and whenever I go back to the PS2 version (just for comparison), it is very noticable that the PS2 version is much slower on Hard than the Xbox version.

Not sure if I agree with you on the unlock system. To me, I played through all levels, in all modes, with all characters, half because I wanted to unlock everything, half because I liked playing the game, so might as well mix it up to further advance my unlock progress. But it really is a massively repetitive chore having to do everything with everyone... I think it'd be less frustrating to unlock stuff sooner.

I understand your opinion. I can understand that some people find this to be repetitive and/or frustrating, but I don't have that problem myself. To me, the game never felt repetitive or frustrating. I am a completionist as well, so completing the Xbox version was way more satisfying than completing the PS2 version, because in the Xbox version you get the last locked weapon, and in the PS2 version you get nothing.

I like the X/G flag mode better. While playing for 100%, I've had Flag Rally races that lasted way over 20 minutes, and some that literally lasted 10 seconds. It was pretty funny.

The Flag Rally in Xbox/Gamecube is way more chaotic, and that's why I like it more than the PS2 version. It's also way more challenging as well, and it can (like you said) take more than 20 minutes to complete the event.

Ah yes, the extra level. Easily one my favorite extra levels in any game ever, even though it was just a nonsense mash. I still absolutely adored the concept, and even today hope that some games do something similar. The "pure chaos" factor is more important than the "logical level design" factor in these cases, I'd say. I don't recall any of the extra weapons, though... Did you have to do something special to unlock them? Maybe my friend hadn't unlocked them.

The bonus level is the only thing I miss in the Xbox/GameCube version. It was a really great addition. The extra weapons in the PS2 version are unlockable in the same way as the other weapons, by completing the events they first appear in.

Oh, one more thing I remember being different! ...If I'm not mistaken. The character selection screen is vastly different, with a 3D menu. If I recall correctly, you could even combine characters and vehicles. Please tell me I didn't imagine this! I remember being very confused as a child, after I got my copy, as to what happened to the 3D menu. Did I imagine it? Was it from the PS2 version and I just didn't realize they were different? Was it from an early build of the game?

No, the character selection screen is exactly the same in all versions. It is also not possible to combine characters and vehicles.

Maybe there was an early demo of the Xbox/GameCube version that I am not aware of that had 3D models, who knows...

[Espyo]

Maybe there was an early demo of the Xbox/GameCube version that I am not aware of that had 3D models, who knows...

Damn! I'll never know where I saw that...