The TDR Diary

All things Carmageddon TDR2000 related - from editing, to multiplayer, tips and hints.
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Nerd Koopa
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Post by Nerd Koopa »

The TDR Diary


I've made it my mission to play through the entirety of Carmageddon TDR 2000 in order to determine once and for all if it has any redeeming qualities. I'm also looking for some sort of personal conclusion on the matter. I'll be documenting the entire experience on this topic with screenshots, comments, analyzing and stats.

About The Game





If I remember correctly, I got my copy around 2005. For reasons that I can't recall, I never played it past Hall of Fame. It's been sitting in my game shelf ever since. This will change now!

As you can see, it did not come with a physical manual. The manual is just a PDF file on the disk.



I found it strange that this "Sold Out Software" version comes with the Nosebleed Pack cars, but not the tracks. 1920's and Hell are missing in action. I guess it's the Nosebleed Patch and not Pack, as indicated by the Carmageddon Wiki.

After testing that everything runs as it should, I put the difficulty on Sunday Driver (hey, I never said that I was good at these games) and started my adventure. Let's see if Torus Games knew at all what they were doing.

Part 1. Hollowood




Here we go! The first level! It's pretty much as I remembered it from all those years ago. After beating Carmageddon 2, this place feels very small. It feels like it's less than half the size of Beaver Woods. However, it is quite colorful and there's a lot going on. A stunt track, studios, a haunted house set, a western set, a water set, a city set and two small restaurants. As a first level to get the player familiar with the controls and gameplay mechanics, it's all right.

As I mess around in free ride mode, I start to notice the changes to the vehicle physics. It all feels a lot sharper, almost arcade-y. Turning is sharper, stopping is quicker, everything happens faster. The looseness and floatiness of Carma 1 and 2 is nowhere to be found. It's decent for what it is, but it doesn't feel like Carmageddon. It feels more like early Need For Speed games.

I stumble upon an Explosive Pedestrians powerup, and to my dismay it has been turned into a powerDOWN. In Carma 2 it made peds splatter even on light impact, but here it makes them actually explode, lifting your car a little. Not good. However, I quickly notice that the effect times of powerdowns like Hot Rod, Bouncy Bouncy and Greased Tires have been reduced greatly, so I guess that's nice.

Once change that I kinda like are the provocative pedestrians. Some of them throw ineffective Molotov cocktails at you and some of them even stick out their butts at you and smack them! That said, the ones with actual grenades can go straight to hell. Oh wait... Hell is missing here... Crap.

Race 1: The Boulevard

Attempt: 1

Fastest lap: 1:26

Fastest time completed: 8:40

Fastest opponent waste: 2:02

Fastest waste all opponents: 8:40

Most peds wasted: 61

I start to notice that the peds are way harder to kill than in Carma 1 and 2. They die only if you hit them at very high speeds, or splatter them against solid objects. Otherwise they just lose a limb or two and carry on. It gets a bit irritating when you have to really commit to killing a single pedestrian. Also, only two to three seconds of extra time for killing a single ped? What a ripoff! Carma 1 and 2 give at least 15 seconds!

Mission 1: Send in the Sharks

Attempt: 3

Fastest time completed: 5:28

Most peds wasted: 10

This took three restarts because of that damn first bomb part in the mine entrance. At first I didn't even see the giant gap in front of the entrance, so down I went! After a few fruitless recoveries I had to restart, only to repeat the same mistakes over again.

When I tried this mission for the first time way back in the day, I remember the bomb getting stuck on top of the car after I tried to deploy it in front of the computer room doors. That sheer moment of pure "OH SHIT" is something that I associate with this mission to this very day.

Race 2: The Studio Tour

Attempt: 1

Fastest lap: 2:06

Fastest time completed: 12:07

Fastest opponent waste: 3:51

Fastest waste all opponents: 12:07

Most peds wasted: 16

This is the point where I notice how hitting opponents gives only about one or two extra seconds, no matter how hard you hit them. Again, Carma 1 and 2 give a lot more time. Even wasting an opponent gives only about a minute more. This combined with the very small ped kill time bonuses and checkpoints now giving extra 12 seconds, I find myself racing more than I did in the other games. That doesn't seem very Carmageddon-like...

Also, the wheels on some opponents are very wobbly. You know how Interstate '76 looks like when played without CPU clamping? It's a little like that. Does anyone know how to fix this?

Mission 2: Pop the Sucker

Attempt: 1

Fastest time completed: 4:22

Most peds wasted: 1

Default underwater physics feel like the Underwater Ability powerup from previous games. I don't mind this change, but this mission is still a bit slow if you try to chase the animatronic shark in the water.

Race 3: Hall of Fame

Attempt: 1

Fastest lap: 2:55

Fastest time completed: 12:24

Fastest opponent waste: 0:33

Fastest waste all opponents: 12:24

Most peds wasted: 29

This is where I realize one of the game's greatest weaknesses compared to the other titles. Wasting opponents feels really unsatisfying! The sheer joy of hurling a big lump of metal against another lump of metal and watching the weaker one crumble and explode is just GONE. There's no feeling of mass and energy. The boby panels feel like cardboard. Cars just sort of shatter with a gutless whimper. It's like toppling a house of cards by farting on it. Compared to 1 and 2 it all just feels so... Gutless. Watered down. Soulless. In most other driving games the damage physics would be ok, but not here. Not in Carmageddon.

Mission 3: Going Ape

Attempt: 1

Fastest time completed: 3:30

Most peds wasted: 9

A rather simple "get 3 things" mission. I've seen videos of the missions, so I knew how to get the last tricky fuse on the rock formation. Seeing a giant animatronic gorilla taking down a wall is one of the wackiest things I've seen in a video game. So far I've had more fun with TDR's missions than I ever did with Carmageddon 2's missions, which is a bit of a surprise.

And that concludes Part 1! Comments and constructive critisism are welcome. Stay tuned for Part 2: The Slums!
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stygimoloch
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Post by stygimoloch »

Good read. One thing I will say for TDR is that while the damage and wasting aren't as satisfying, I find the duels more tactically engaging than in Carma 2. Obviously neither of them are a patch on Carma 1, but to me TDR's duels generally have a bit more rhythm and dance to them than Carma 2 and a bit more of a feel that you're trying to outmanoeuvre the other vehicle.

And while the missions are better than Carma 2's, they're still pretty shite :P
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Espyo
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Post by Espyo »

I'm liking it so far! And you did raise an interesting point I haven't thought about before: C2's missions vs CTDR's. As a guy that loved the C2 missions (one of a kind!), I can easily see how most people would prefer CTDR's. I guess that's another positive point for the game, out of all the negative ones.
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stygimoloch
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Post by stygimoloch »

Another tactic which I've found useful in Traffic Jam is filling up the open sewer section with trailers, vans, oil drums and other large, heavy things which force the targets to slow right down as they try to ram their way through.
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Breakin'Benny
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Post by Breakin'Benny »

Hey, by the way. Since you didn't get all of the Nosebleed Pack, it might be a good idea to make use of the MAX-Pack (but uninstall to only-Nosebleed if you only want the Nosebleed content)
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stygimoloch
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Post by stygimoloch »

Heh. The Docks is one of my favourite environments in TDR, and Jaws is one of my favourite vehicles.
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Nerd Koopa
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Post by Nerd Koopa »

I can see how you can like Jaws. It's fast, massive and a very cool design, but HOT DAMN that steering delay is irritating!
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stygimoloch
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Post by stygimoloch »

Nerd Koopa wrote:I can see how you can like Jaws. It's fast, massive and a very cool design, but HOT DAMN that steering delay is irritating!

Don't forget the afterburner that sets fire to peds!
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Espyo
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Post by Espyo »

Chin up! After Necropolis and The Bridge comes one of the best levels, in my opinion.

Oh, and just because not many people are replying doesn't mean they're not liking the thread. At least I speak for myself when I say that I'm thoroughly enjoying this diary so far.
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mrroblinx
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Post by mrroblinx »

Keep the good work ;)
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Ray Murderiz
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Post by Ray Murderiz »

i saw somewere that carma 3 was a good game but not a good carmageddon game. seeing this, i say that carma 3 is a average game but a Very bad carmageddon game. keep solderin on koopa good job on making it as comprensive as it is.
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lemonrev
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Post by lemonrev »

im reading but not saying a word as this is a lone persons perspective and i do appreciate it, makes me remember why i gave up playing it long before i got to the end :P
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stygimoloch
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Post by stygimoloch »

This time I agree with you! Military Zone is boring as hell, and dragging the nuke around is fucking atrocious.

Out of interest, if Eagle was that weak, how come you didn't buy another car?

I'm looking forward to the next part - Necropolis is probably my favourite environment in the game* and I have a soft spot for The Bridge, too.

*Base game, anyway... 1920s is just something else.
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Breakin'Benny
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Post by Breakin'Benny »

Wow, The Great Divide was indeed a frustration. If only you had the Mckilem...

By the way, be sure to note down the names in the credits! (You can also find a text file called Credits.txt in ASSETS/Strings, the question when you come to that is "What are all these Australian fools doing now? They should meet Stainless in person.")
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Nerd Koopa
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Post by Nerd Koopa »

Part 8 is most likely going to get delayed due to various life happenings, but don't worry. I haven't given up on the game yet.
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Post by Espyo »

Woo! This was an awesome thread, man! Loved every second of it. And yeah, I pretty much agree with you on every point you made. Except the checkpoints. You mentioned that having them remain a hologram allows vehicles of all sizes to race (if the track has small ramps or crevices, that's a different story), but slamming opponents against the checkpoint posts is pretty great. Maybe if the checkpoints are holographic for the player, but not opponents? Or maybe some other mechanic to allow bigger cars to trigger checkpoints, like staying next to one for 2 seconds? Who knows.
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Nerd Koopa
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Post by Nerd Koopa »

What if you were able to choose between solid and non-solid checkpoints? I like splitting my cars on the checkpoint posts in C2 when in cheat mode. Splitting the Deathcruiser is especially amusing.
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Breakin'Benny
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Post by Breakin'Benny »

Neat work, fella. Now try the Nosebleed Pack which the MAX-Pack comes with!

..Oh by the way, you can see the end of Carmageddon 3 right here. Do that if the BIK really is corrupted. (It's not a pleasant ending, though...)
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smull_
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Post by smull_ »

Nerd Koopa wrote:

It all feels a lot sharper, almost arcade-y. Turning is sharper, stopping is quicker, everything happens faster. The looseness and floatiness of Carma 1 and 2 is nowhere to be found. It's decent for what it is, but it doesn't feel like Carmageddon. It feels more like early Need For Speed games.


Good. While the original two were fun, it was impossible to actually race there. The cars were too heavy, too hard to steer, with too much momentum. The tweaked physics in TDR are for the better.


I start to notice that the peds are way harder to kill than in Carma 1 and 2. They die only if you hit them at very high speeds, or splatter them against solid objects. Otherwise they just lose a limb or two and carry on. It gets a bit irritating when you have to really commit to killing a single pedestrian. Also, only two to three seconds of extra time for killing a single ped? What a ripoff! Carma 1 and 2 give at least 15 seconds!

Good. Carma 1 and 2 were way too easy. It was very easy to amass lots of time by going over peds and hitting opppents. And then what? There was no point to race, you just went around wasting opponents. Yawn.

The reduced bonus times mean that you should actually race in TDR, there is a risk of messing up and having to restart, you have to pay attention to getting the good power ups and avoiding the bad, had to pay attention to your driving, the opponents, the traffic and had to hunt and get the time powerups.

Much much better than the gameplay in 1 and 2.

And if you wanted to just roam around killing things (like every single 'race' in the orignals ended up), there was free ride. Simple.

This is the point where I notice how hitting opponents gives only about one or two extra seconds, no matter how hard you hit them. Again, Carma 1 and 2 give a lot more time. Even wasting an opponent gives only about a minute more. This combined with the very small ped kill time bonuses and checkpoints now giving extra 12 seconds, I find myself racing more than I did in the other games. That doesn't seem very Carmageddon-like...

See above. The changes are an improvement. If you want to mindlessly roam around, play free ride. If you want a challenge (unlike 1 and 2), play the campaign races and missions.

This is where I realize one of the game's greatest weaknesses compared to the other titles. Wasting opponents feels really unsatisfying! The sheer joy of hurling a big lump of metal against another lump of metal and watching the weaker one crumble and explode is just GONE. There's no feeling of mass and energy. The boby panels feel like cardboard. Cars just sort of shatter with a gutless whimper. It's like toppling a house of cards by farting on it. Compared to 1 and 2 it all just feels so... Gutless. Watered down. Soulless. In most other driving games the damage physics would be ok, but not here. Not in Carmageddon.

Not true. Its still satisfying to kill opponents.

So far I've had more fun with TDR's missions than I ever did with Carmageddon 2's missions, which is a bit of a surprise.

That's because they are fun.

Nerd Koopa wrote:

A turn right after a big jump? Seriously?


Good. It's a challening game and you need to pay attention to the layout.

This mission... This goddamn mission... After four attempts of getting stuck, weapons doing no damage and running out of time, I was pissed. Seriously, 2% health left on an opponent, and a Slaughter Mortars and hard hits do NOTHING?! Bullshit!

Yeah this one sucked, had to use a cheat.

Nerd Koopa wrote:

I finally noticed that the opponents in TDR aren't nearly as agressive as in the other games. They are much more concerned with the checkpoints than the player. This makes reaching them a bit more difficult, because they never seem to come after you. You don't seem to be able to provoke them into chasing you, no matter how hard you hit them. Might be because I'm playing on the Sunday Driver difficulty. Still, a tiny bit more AI agression would be nice.


Uhm yeah, try playing on a harder diffuclty. The opponents do come after you. Not as much as before though, which again is an improvement. All i had to do before was loiter around somewhere and all the opponents will come to me. Easy to to gain time and easy to waste them. Boring.

Nerd Koopa wrote:

At this point the rise in difficulty made me change my play style. You are given so little time that you NEED to prioritize checkpoints over opponent wasting to survive the races! Given the nerfed time bonuses and cowardly opponent behaviour, catching and wasting an opponent in under a minute with the Eagle is just not feasible, even if you upgrade it. Unlike in the previous games, checkpoints can give up to 25 extra seconds, but only if you go through them fast enough. Maybe this is why all the other time bonuses were decreased so much. I don't like this system, because it pretty much FORCES you to race! Forcing the player to do something is NOT part of the Carmageddon philosophy!


Wrong. This system is better. As i said before, the first two games were way too easy and laid back. If you want that in TDR, play free ride without a timer. That's what Carma1 and 2 pretty much amounted to.

I like that the races are challenging and that you have to hunt for powerups, avoid traffic, get time bonus etc. And i'm playing on highest difficulty. This system is much more fun than before.

But you can also win the races by hunting opponents, you just need to me smart, and know where the good powerups are.

FUCK. THIS. RACE. Who the hell places so many powerdowns in so prominent and difficult track sections?! Every single item on this route is harmful! YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO PLACE A LUNAR GRAVITY AFTER A TURBO WHEN THERE'S A 90 DEGREE TURN AND A PIT AHEAD, WITH LESS THAN A MINUTE TO GET TO THE CHECKPOINT! AND YOU DO NOT PLACE THOSE TWO IN A NARROW ALLEY WHERE AVOIDING THEM IS A MATTER OF PURE LUCK! This track is so bad that they might as well have put mines in place of every single item. Actally, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER.

Again, this is not the easy stuff like in Carma 1 and 2. I like how they placed these poweups, so evil and hilarious. Anyway its easy to avoid after the first time if you're careful.

At the end of the day, Carmageddon TDR 2000 is a medicore racing game that fails to live up to its predecessors. All the tiny changes to gameplay stack up to something that does not feel like Carmageddon. For what it is, it's a passable racing game. Just don't go in expecting anything nearly as spectacular or satisfying as Carmageddon 1 or 2. I'm still glad that I played it. If nothing else, it made me appreciate the previous games so much more.

Mediocre? The only other games like it are Carmageddon 1 and 2. Compared to them, i'd say is superior. I doesn't fail at all, it surpasses them. It feels more like a racing game, has great levels, great powerups and a ton of cars and its fun and re-playable. Carmageddon 1 and 2 are fun to mess around in, with the ridiculous physics and laid back gameplay, but they feel like toys not games.

TDR2000 tweaked the car physics (so now the cars can be controlled and raced), reduced the insane amount of time you got from killing, made the races challenging, added fun missions with a sense of progression, and finally made a game out of the series.

I have Carmageddon 1 currently installed, but i haven't touched it since i started replaying TDR. Because there is no point in racing (not to mention barely feasible because of the sluggish cars and floaty physics), the game feels very repetitive. There is no challenge whatsoever. Just ram your opponents a few times you've got five minutes of time already. Kill a few peds, and you've got ten. Game over.

It's fun ramming cars and what not, and so is Carmageddon 2 (car deformation is done best in Carma2), but as games they are not as good as TDR.
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mrroblinx
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Post by mrroblinx »

@smull

Er.... Are you feeling OK?
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LordToastALot
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Post by LordToastALot »

TDR sucked. It's not even up for debate.
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smull_
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Post by smull_ »

LordToastALot wrote:TDR sucked. It's not even up for debate.

Just because it was not identical to the previous games doesn't mean that it sucks. If you want another Carmageddon 2, play Carmageddon 2.
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Breakin'Benny
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Post by Breakin'Benny »

LordToastALot wrote:TDR sucked. It's not even up for debate.

Golly, even Stainless wouldn't like talking about it... But sure, some of the things were questionable like human peds surviving without their legs. Either that or it was the fallout mutation in case you don't play a version with zombies instead.
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Trent
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Post by Trent »

smull wrote:
Just because it was not identical to the previous games doesn't mean that it sucks. If you want another Carmageddon 2, play Carmageddon 2.
Just because it's different to the original two games doesn't mean it's better. If you want to play a game where you're forced to race and have the option of smash opponents, go play Burnout.

The fact is TDR was a poor approximation of a Carmageddon game. The missions were mostly the same mission with different dressing, the physics were awful compared to the originals, combat was far less satisfying, the cars were much blander, killing peds is pointless as you waste more time killing them than you get from killing them, the level design was quite awful leading to very bad race layouts. Yes, it's harder than the original 2 games but not in a challenging way, it's hard in a "oh for fuck's sake this is so broken and frustrating" sort of way. You don't lose races through lack of skill, you lose races because the game is badly designed and makes you lose for things which aren't your fault. If you take out the parts where the game breaks or the winning is based on a random chance, it's actually much easier than the original two games.

But that's just my (and 99% of Carmaggedon fans) opinion about it. You're entitled to your opinion no matter how unpopular an opinion it is, just don't express it by telling replying to others' opinions with "WRONG!" as that does not give a good first impression. One thing you should understand, though, is that TDR2000 was not made by Stainless and so it butchered many of their ideas and many of the elements which made Carmageddon popular in the first place. The new game is being made by Stainless again so if you're expecting it to take cues from TDR and force people to race or have arcadey physics, you'll be disappointed.
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Post by smull_ »

Trent wrote:
Just because it's different to the original two games doesn't mean it's better.

Except that it is in this case.


The missions were mostly the same mission with different dressing,

And were still more fun that those in Carmageddon 2.

the physics were awful compared to the originals

Not awful, just less sluggish. Care are more responsive allowing you to actually race and steer.

combat was far less satisfying,

Not really.

the cars were much blander

How so?

killing peds is pointless as you waste more time killing them than you get from killing them

An improvement, Carmageddon 1 and 2 are ridiculously easy games

the level design was quite awful leading to very bad race layouts.

I found the races actually very fun and enjoyable. Especially considering that in the previous two i never actually completed any of them. I tried a few times but it was just not fun and pointless.

You don't get time from checkpoints, peds and hitting enemies give you ridiculous amount of time, so ever single race was just wasting opponents. And it was easy to do.

The fact that you have to race in TDR is a huge improvement. You can try not, but it is a challenge, and you need to find good powerups to do so.

Yes, it's harder than the original 2 games but not in a challenging way, it's hard in a "oh for fuck's sake this is so broken and frustrating" sort of way. You don't lose races through lack of skill, you lose races because the game is badly designed and makes you lose for things which aren't your fault.

No, if i lose a level it was because i made mistakes. As i said, the game is not the walk in the park that the previous two were.

One thing you should understand, though, is that TDR2000 was not made by Stainless and so it butchered many of their ideas and many of the elements which made Carmageddon popular in the first place.

By butchered you mean improved. They should hire these guys again.
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Breakin'Benny
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Post by Breakin'Benny »

I think he meant that the cars were not as interesting to look at, they looked more like normal cars with nothing but paint on 'em. In addition, the inspirations consisted merely of shows to anime (even the peds had some animesque to them with dyed hair and...)

..Then yes, the peds miraculously standing when they lose a leg is actually insane if I wasn't reminded of the mutation (or playing a Zombie version of this)!

And if Stainless should hire anyone who had to go through SCi (now Square Enix)'s ways, then go ahead... I'd gladly agree that Australia can clean up the mess.
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mrroblinx
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Post by mrroblinx »

I think this smull guy is from the TDR team... Or a troll
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Post by nobby »

Nerd... Awesome posts. Great descriptions, made me LOL a LOT.

Particularly awesome, as it means I finally got to find out what TDR consists of without having to play any more of it (beyond the first level, that I've started half a dozen times, only to give up in disgust/despair after several frustrating minutes).

Just wanted to express my appreciation for the effort and entertainment. Now though, I think it best that I go back to Never Talking About That Game.
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Post by smull_ »

nobby wrote:Nerd... Awesome posts. Great descriptions, made me LOL a LOT.

Particularly awesome, as it means I finally got to find out what TDR consists of without having to play any more of it (beyond the first level, that I've started half a dozen times, only to give up in disgust/despair after several frustrating minutes).


Just wanted to express my appreciation for the effort and entertainment. Now though, I think it best that I go back to Never Talking About That Game.


TDR is every bit as good as the previous games, and in many ways better.

Stainless made an entertaining game with Carmageddon, but that's about it. TDR made it better, and Stainless have been making garbage games since then. I doubt Reincarnation will be anywhere close to TDR or Carmageddon 1/2.
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Post by FatCat »

smull wrote:
TDR is every bit as good as the previous games, and in many ways better.

Stainless made an entertaining game with Carmageddon, but that's about it. TDR made it better, and Stainless have been making garbage games since then. I doubt Reincarnation will be anywhere close to TDR or Carmageddon 1/2.

Don't assume the game will be bad when what you've seen isn't anywhere close to done.
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Post by smull_ »

It's just funny when people refer to TDR as if it's sort of abomination. Tons of people enjoyed it, and for good reason. Reincarnation doesn't seem to offer anything new, except graphics.
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Trent
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Post by Trent »

smull wrote:
TDR is every bit as good as the previous games, and in many ways better.

Stainless made an entertaining game with Carmageddon, but that's about it. TDR made it better, and Stainless have been making garbage games since then. I doubt Reincarnation will be anywhere close to TDR or Carmageddon 1/2.

Good plan, telling the founder of Stainless that Stainless makes garbage. Might I ask what you are doing here if you think Carmageddon and it's developer are rubbish? After all this is Stainless' site for Stainless' Carmageddon games.

Whether you like to admit it or not, Carmageddon 1 & 2 were extremely popular games and critically acclaimed while TDR2000 was extremely unpopular and critically slated. You may prefer it, but the majority of fans of Carmageddon think it's much worse. Most people who like TDR, like you, don't really like the originals and there are far fewer of those than there are people who loved the original two games. If you're just going to continue to troll this thread and insult other fans and the people who make Carmageddon, you might as well just leave and never come back.
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Espyo
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Posts: 1287
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:43 am

The TDR Diary

Post by Espyo »

@smull: As Trip would say it, "I think it's time for you to leave".

TDR had a physics engine that must've taken a while to create, and make bug-free (for the most part, the physics engine is more glitchless than the original games'). The cars, pedestrians, etc. have detailed models and textures. The levels feature a couple of fun gimmicks. Risk can be smelled in the air, as several innovations were brought to the Carma formula, like taunting opponents and aggressive pedestrians.

Objectively, those parts of TDR confirm that this was a game that had some effort put into it. Nobody can rightfully say TDR was shit, because it got quite a few things right, and on its own, it's a perfectly passable game. That's the objective viewpoint on the positives.

The negative parts mostly come subjectively, and are agreed upon pretty much unanimously. The "NASCAR racing game"-like physics made the game less fun to drive for Carma veterans, as it focused more on being glued to the ground rather than flying and exploring the Y-axis. The difficulty spike came off as a buzz-kill, because in Carma, unless you follow dedicated challenges (e.g. kill all peds), you're meant to play the game for fun and relaxation, and the way you want it. The levels are smaller and less lively than on the other games. A lot of the "innovations" ended up deviating from the Carma formula too much, or become annoying.

Now, this matters because, while objectively, the game has fair enough technological standards, subjectively, it fails to live up to the fun that Carmageddon is all about. That's why even though the game has redeeming qualities, and there can be a lot of people that like them, overall, the game is worse than the previous two.

If you prefer TDR, that's your opinion. But saying it's better than the classics is just not true. Now, in case you're a petty little troll, here's your reply, and now that your stomach's fed, please leave the thread be.

If you're not, we'd appreciate it if you stopped rowing against the current. Everyone agrees the classics are better, for good reasons (as was explained before), and claiming you like TDR better isn't going to change that.

You're entitled to your opinion, but for the sake of the forum's peacefulness, don't make a big deal out of TDR's qualities. That said, if you chill down, you'll notice there are always a few people willing to peacefully discuss TDR's good bits.

Hopefully now everybody can settle down, and TDR Debate #466 can be put to a rest.
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smull_
pedestrian
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:28 pm

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Post by smull_ »

Trent wrote: Most people who like TDR, like you, don't really like the originals

I never said i did not like the originals. Carmageddon 1 is currently installed on my laptop and i'm enjoying it, and i've played Carmageddon 2 many times.

Espyo wrote:
That said, if you chill down, you'll notice there are always a few people willing to peacefully discuss TDR's good bits.

You mean like mrroblinx's insightful "TDR sucks, period" and nobby's "Never Talking About That Game"?

Espyo wrote:
The "NASCAR racing game"-like physics made the game less fun to drive for Carma veterans, as it focused more on being glued to the ground rather than flying and exploring the Y-axis. The difficulty spike came off as a buzz-kill, because in Carma, unless you follow dedicated challenges (e.g. kill all peds), you're meant to play the game for fun and relaxation, and the way you want it. The levels are smaller and less lively than on the other games. A lot of the "innovations" ended up deviating from the Carma formula too much, or become annoying.

The racing like physics allow you to do exactly that, race, which is not possible nor fun in the previous two games, because it was pointless.

For fun and relaxation i can read a book. Playing Camrageddon 1 and 2 is fun in small doses because it gets tiresome thanks to the extremely low difficulty and lack of any real challenge.


But saying it's better than the classics is just not true. Everyone agrees the classics are better, for good reasons (as was explained before), and claiming you like TDR better isn't going to change that.

In many ways it's better. Some of you are just not that open minded to see that.
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LordToastALot
speed freak
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:14 pm

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Post by LordToastALot »