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Who's active here (for LumberJack)

For everything that doesn't belong elsewhere.
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The_Bollocks
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by The_Bollocks »

Man, you're a blast from the past! :beer:

Indeed things have slowed down, but then again, the game itself is 13 years old. I'm hoping to maybe get back into making more cars again in the near future. Work and shit always gets in the way though.

For the most part though, I've grown out of playing computer games in recent years (with the exception of a few games here and there). I'm more concentrating in car restoration and part time college these days.

See you again in 3 years maybe! :lol:

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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Lumberjack »

Nice!
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Razor »


I'm hoping to maybe get back into making more cars again in the near future. Work and shit always gets in the way though.
This.

I haven't worked much on Carma recently, which is a shame. I must get back into it soon.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Lumberjack »

Yeah exactly, I was starting on something but I was too ambitious on my first idea, and then I couldn't be bothered. I still have it in mind though.. somewhere, Toshiba-3 is rolling his eyes. Think I should make a simple one. The problem I was that I was running only C1 when I started back on CarEd. I dug out my C2 disc so should install that soon :lol:
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Savage-Elve »

I'm still alive :smile:

Maybe I will do some things again with Carmageddon now that I have it working under Linux. But I can't promise anything.

At the moment I'm just an unemployed webdeveloper with lots of spare time.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by TTR »

So who here is actually active? Anyone, including me, posted here saying we are here but we don't actually do shit!

You know who's the most active? I know who. And damnit he deserves it: Toshiba!!!
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Andy Gobeil »

Believe it or not I'm still around!
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by pileup »

I'm here.... but im not important enough! ( i know toshiba has been quite active, i helped him with the banger general lee) :oops:
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by The Outlaw »

Well I'm here as well, damn where is everyone?
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Deamon »

Still here, now and then.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by lentilky »

I'm here, periodically reading the new posts :rockon:
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by The Outlaw »

Thats cool I just wish we can get this forum more active again.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by panzermetal »

not me , but now i'm back in the day... ready to smash!
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by juozas »

Trashin My Trash as always whit means ima reading thy posts of users and rarely contributing.

Been went alot on programming, altrough alot projects of mine already stopped in the middle or beginning of something, and there's almost no content of Carma on my site. Although my blog is up and running there around.... :techsupport:
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by bb_427 »

I'm still here. Was never a contributor, but was always downloading everyone's files and reading posts. I'm on board, what can we do to bring this site/game back to life?
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by The Outlaw »

It will come back eventually just give it time. :wink:
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Lumberjack »

Nice. I thought this forum was dead the other day, what happened? Anyway good to see its still here.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by SoupaVedg »

I think that's what's happening is that some people are trying to revive the community. That would be awesome.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by The_Bollocks »

It's good seeing this place getting back on its feet again. I know I made a grave mistake deleting the C4 forum, and I sincerely apologise for that. But, it's all water under the bridge now (I hope!)

I'm going to make another car soon hopefully, putting my Micra into the game. Watch this space.
1982 Ford Escort Mk3 1.3 L (restoration project)
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by SoupaVedg »

As far as I know there's only one person that got angry over that and that person isn't here anymore. Besides, everybody make mistakes right?
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by The_Bollocks »

^ Indeed. Lessons have been learnt.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Toshiba-3 »

Hello.

I talked to A LOT of people about this loss. Most were part of the projects featured inside that forum.

They weren't happy at all. This can be easily understood when you actually took part in this community's projects you know.

Which isn't your case.

The community can't be revived. Talked about this with ChevyII lately: the "golden age" was ten years ago.

Nothing will make a mass of new people play this game and mod it considering it's so old, complicated and barely runs on modern systems.

The only thing that can be done is "maintaining" the community, knowledge and datas gathered over the years. Then make it available to the very few new modders trying to enter the scene.

No offense but no one here even tries besides n3wton and Razor.

Since I stopped being active here, I archived Gbs of datas and websites, a lot is already available online at RR2000. Same with lists of tutorials, tools, websites. (Speaking of which that's another good example of this board entropy: the Carma Links which can be found in the Noobs Section here is actually mine and was taken from RR2000. After I left, no one ever attempted to keep it up to date.) I also worked a lot in C1 modding and helped Jeff with his XNA C1 engine. Finaly I try my best to help people on devWAM, by mail, or simply here via PMs. It only takes a few minutes and I see no one doing what I do. What's hilarious is that devWAM is the only place that tries to gather news from what's left of the community and bring new informations from the web...

I even promote the projects of people who think I'm bad for this community.

I'm not trying to say I'm the best/only one etc. as it'd be untrue and pathetic, but from what I just said it's clear that someone like you Soupavedg has no reason or even right to blame me. And as I implied earlier, it's not because I'm not publicly active that I'm not here anymore.

Bollocks: you indeed made a very sad mistake as us modders lost the history of our cooperative projects. I probably uselessly overreacted back then and that wasn't helpful ; but there's one thing that we found sadder: "Hello, this is 'The_Bollocks' from CWA. I accidently deleted the C4 forum there a few days back. Do any of you's have it backed up somewhere, and if so, could you restore it back onto the forum. Thanks."

You lied. This sure made you look very lame in our eyes. (not that it matters ofcourse, but this explains a lot of things)

I hope your "Lessons have been learnt." applies to this as well. Personaly I don't care. It's just an advice.

Back onto the actual activity within the community. Making new addon cars is always a good thing but seriously at some point it should be made correctly. I know Pip didn't like the fact I stated his addons weren't finished, go to Econobrick's CRUD and download one of his cars. These are finished addons. Releases shouldn't be rushed, it just shows that you feel like you're wasting your time making that model and putting it into C2. Really, if you release something barely finished, missing a lot of C2 features, it tells that you don't care about what you release. Simply have a look in the Noobs Section, CoffeyCup wrote a list of features to check before releasing a car. It includes firepoints, because NO a rear bumper on fire doesn't make sense when it's the engine that took the damage. It also includes simple_model, this is important. No one wants cars popping out of nowhere. It is very useful to prevent ingame lag: even though our computers become more and more powerful, C2 was thought with Pentium II in mind and won't take advantage of any new technology, so all these triangles must fully be handled by the same 10+years old engine. Have 30 of them without simple_model onscreen and you get 5fps... How could you be able to create a very nice model in a few days if you can't even create an unwrapped box for the simple model?

Also if you're willing to make "eyecandy" models for the game, then take the time to learn the tricks and basics. The SHELL model is very important when applying env maps that follow the smoothing groups. It can also help the performance on lower end machines.

Finaly the most important thing is obviously the zip archive... have a correct hierarchy within it so that people can just extract it in one click and be ready to test. Also remove all the useless files, including the PIX16 folder. It prevents problem, weighs less, and looks like a finished addon.

But it's not all! If you really want to try to bring new people because you're active etc. then talk about your work, try to get REAL feedback and critics from other people in different communities. Not only will you improve and go out of the CWA box but you'll also show what's possible with C1/C2 and how alive it is after all these years. It's obvious: people won't know about 2011 Carmageddon modding if you don't show them.

This is what Harm and I try to do. Beroc, AdR, TDA etc. did this too. This had attracted a lot of interest back in the time. Websites were well indexed, showing off a lot of projects and cars, making C2 look fun and awesome. You get it, it's a circle.

As long as you continue making half-finished cars in two days because you should/can. Nothing will move. And no enthusiasm will rise. Actually I bet that even if it does, enthusiasm would be very short and motivation would vanish quickly. That's why I said "maintaining" and not "reviving".

Take your time. Make models/projects you actually want to make. Have fun.

This is how you'll make the Carmageddon community look active and interesting.

Tosh (is active).
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Lumberjack »

Heh, I like how Toshiba brought this back on topic with the last two words.

Guys, please don't trash this thread with a flame war now. As stated, it was originally set up (thanks Razor) to see who was still here. I've been amazed to find how many people that I know (and new ones) still take an interest in Carmageddon, whether it be an active interest, be it modelling, replying to messages in forums, or just watching. I am here now for nostalgia's sake, because I remember what it felt like to be a part of that thriving community all those years ago.

Those people who are still modelling for these games (newcomers or vets alike) are doing it just for fun, in the limited time that they have (hey, we're not all teenagers now, right?) and maybe they won't finish a model on their first release. It's just for fun though! If we had more time we'd all be spitting skins and cars and tracks out all of the time, along with playing a multitude of new games, and a whole bunch of other things we enjoy. So lets just take the fun out of making Carma stuff when we feel like it, even if we can only be bothered to do it half assed :wink:

Good to know that you guys are still here and care enough to fight about it, but lets not :lol:
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by SoupaVedg »

I just stated what I remember from back then, not to start a war, but to say to a person of the comunity that he was welcome around here, when he felt like he might not be. If there was somebody else beside Tosh that was angry because of that (the erasure of the subforum) back then they weren't really much vocal about it.

There's a lot I'd like to say, but I'll refrain, right now from doing it, so not to start a war, as you ask, LJ. Anybody that would like to know my views on this can always PM me, I'll reply as best as I can and with a mind as much open as I can get it open.

As a last phrase to this post, I'd like to mention that even if they have passed the golden and silver age, DC comic still produce comics that are read by a lot of people. Therefore, this comunity can thrive with life again, even if it have passed it golden age. And who know? Maybe what we think was the golden age, was only the silver age and the best might happen in the future.

I sign, active, but not as much as I used to.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Toshiba-3 »

What would be the problem of discussing the matter here? Personaly I don't see it turning into a flame war at all.

And I do find the subject interesting enough to make it open to any member.

Soupavedg, do you have any regular contact with vets, or even any active long-time modder besides coming on this forum?

Saying that they weren't 'vocal' about it is nonsense in this case, as most of them are people who rarely check CWA anymore. They are current/former admins/mods, highly regarded modders and members but also simply people who are still here nowadays and kept quiet because they felt there was nothing more to say and it was none of their business anyway.

What you really meant to say is that I was the only person affected by the loss of that forum, and considering I wasn't posting on CWA anymore the case was closed and insignifiant. Ofcourse the case is closed now, there's nothing we can do and Elendal, boose don't have backups. But you belittle what was lost and how it affected people, and it is normal as you had no business in that forum.

Now I'd like to read what you actually have to say about this. I don't see any reason to refrain, this is a forum. Unless you meant insulting me ofcourse. You didn't take part in this community modding scene for a very long time now. You weren't part of the projects lost with that forum. You aren't an admin or a mod and thus never had to deal with any matter related to this community in background, especially the loss of the Ruin Nation & C4 forum. You have no ambition for this community. So really I wonder what you could add that has any objective value. Go on please.

I really don't see what DC Comics have in common with Carmageddon that can be used to extrapolate the future of this community.



Lumberjack, I think this whole topic misses one notion: passive members. Everybody here isn't an active member (this is not meant as an offense or a pejorative term). People who are active create dynamism inside and around the community, be it through additional content, total conversions, community based projects, real constructive criticisms (like you'd find on Polycount). Passive members are people who are here just because there is some activity but tend to just discuss, it's been years now that passive members in this community don't even download and test new releases, let alone reporting bugs/problem. Right now on CWA only Pip and Bollocks try to be active members. And as my first post implied, I'm afraid they might do this just because CWA is so dead and not necessarily because it's fun. Just a thought ofcourse.

"So lets just take the fun out of making Carma stuff when we feel like it, even if we can only be bothered to do it half assed"

You sound like it's still 2001-2003! :lol: As this topic reflects, time has changed and in order to improve the activity on this forum (this is what we are discussing!), 'half-assed' addons won't do the job anymore. Look at what really generated activity and enthusiasm lately: Jeff's OpenC1, Harm's DD2toC2 and other big projects (even a single addon car is big project in his hands), BBQ multiplayer project, Mastro's C1 Special Edition, Carma2Revolt. Older projects like that included Deamon's MAX pack for TDR, Carma-Life², C2O, SOD, Coffeycup's comeback, etc. All these are very solid fan made Carma related projects that slowed down the dwindling of the Carma fan base.

I might sound very pessimistic and it's always been like that, but you are all saying "let's revive the community!" and nobody here but two people are actually trying. It might also sound like I'm blaming CWA and its members but it isn't the case at all. I'm just trying to tell you that it's normal that it's dying and the community should change form/structure. Hoping endlessly it will revive all of sudden is the best way to end the community. We talked about this one year ago on devWAM btw (and as I presumed you didn't come back as you intended to after all).

As of now, the community is way too large for what's left of its fan base and activity. It should be remodeled into a smaller, more integer and efficient form. Which is what we are trying to do with devWAM but it's difficult as the community is still split in two.

Seeing I'm about to say the same thing I said one year ago, it means I'm done with what I had to tell.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Lumberjack »

Toshiba-3...

In the spirit of CWA, it does seem that you will force this thread off topic. I did try to suggest not doing that..

The way I see it, if anyone out there has any interest in making something for these games, no matter how small, even a skin done with little talent, and they are doing that for their own fun and sharing it because other people may also enjoy it, then that is a valid contribution to the community, and should never be put down, made to feel small or worthless.

When those big projects are done, there will be more content to fill them with. People who download and play them will have more choice and it will be up to them if they want to choose an "unfinished" car model, skin or track over one that is finished. As it is now.

Constructive criticism is always good, and I was an advocate of that back in the day (despite having not much talent myself), however its important not to take this too far. If someone offers criticism on your creation, it is based on their opinion of what it should be... and maybe you disagree with that. So, they won't download it, but you still enjoyed creating it in the state that you did.

(and as I presumed you didn't come back as you intended to after all)


Yes, you were right, I had bitten off more than I could chew with the project I started then, I should have started with something simple as you advised, but I was there on your forum for some answers and encouragement, with an idea to push the boundaries which I was willing to try, and I remember thinking to myself "hmm I should finish this thing to show Toshiba that I could do it". That wasn't healthy.. and I didn't finish it, as you predicted, because it was too difficult as a first project after so many years.

What I did do though is make sure that TSS didn't die, and thanks to your suggestion and also an amazing miracle, TSS now has new C2 cars for the first time in a long time. That is the kind of thing that encourages others, and helps to revive a community.

It will never be how it used to be, because these games are so old that mainly those who are interested are those who played them when they were new. A lot of us are here for nostalgia, not to push any boundaries and bring things into 2011. So why can't you stop putting us all down and just let us be?

You make it sound like new carma content is only worthwhile if it is groundbreaking, but in my opinion, anything new is worthy of great praise, because it means that the creator could actually be bothered to do anything at all.

It's clear that you don't share this opinion, and that's fine, personally I am happy you are here to help make progress and glad that is your goal. It's just a shame that you are so quick to put people down who just want to do things the old way.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by SoupaVedg »

I totally agree with LJ.

Also, keep a thing in mind, Tosh. Remember ADR's first cars, for example his '70 Hemi 'Cuda and his GSX. They were... Not that good. Heck, his GSX have 2 driver front wheels, you can see it the other wheel when you turn. But, as basic as they were, they were a start and ADR finished here as one of the best C2 modelers. Give time to Pip, his cars might not be on the level you want them to be, but in the end, he might become as good as ADR, if not better.

Also, if you REALLY want to help, what about making a topic about all the things you discovered and had Coffee delete? I know there were a lot of neat discoveries you made, that unfortunately, aren't in the public domain, since they were deleted.

Right now, I'm unsure of your motives, as you had stopped posting when CWA went "dormant" and now that somebody have waken it up and is trying to bring it back in shape, you come and put us down? Is that really helpful? Actually, I see your posts more as a way to keep your place as the only active Carma site with a forum, as a way to promote your own ambitions over the community. If I'm wrong, then prove it and help us rebuild CWA. It might not be like in the old days, but it'll be... Like today. And tomorrow it'll be different yet again, because it's evolving and try to not stall.

Also, if all of those vets do all agree with you, they still have theirs account here, right? So, why they don't say a thing? I'd really talk to them, understand what had them start modeling and what has had them stop from doing so.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Blingy »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdMxRG9Jol0

Don't ask me why, but I felt it was necessary.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Toshiba-3 »

Lumberjack, this topic is about the community activity. What we are discussing is totally ontopic.

First: in my previous posts, I've discussed the matter of new addons in the perspective of a revival of the community. I made it clear and I thought it was obvious. And yes this imply high standards and polished stuff, it's logical.

"The way I see it, if anyone out there has any interest in making something for these games, no matter how small, even a skin done with little talent, and they are doing that for their own fun and sharing it because other people may also enjoy it, then that is a valid contribution to the community, and should never be put down, made to feel small or worthless."

And I never said the contrary. If you are implicitely trying to make me say what I didn't, then this is lame. I'm the only person in this community who promotes all kind of work, even the small barely working addons by newbies etc. I even announced the C2 cars on TSS before you noticed them. I do like it when newcomers enter the modding scene and discover how it works. It is also a great thing to see an older member testing an idea or releasing something quickly just because he found it fun. But if you guys want a "revival" I just stated that it won't be enough and THAT IS ALL. Call me an asshole if you want, but I'm just facing the truth and saying it. This is the same in every oldschool community. And no I have nothing against small n00b projects etc., or else I wouldn't 1) help them 2) promote them.

SECOND: "So why can't you stop putting us all down and just let us be?"

Now what is that? Am I putting you down just because I'm saying the truth, because I don't say 'you are all amazing dudes making awesome stuff, it's like the good ol' days, omg revival' etc.? I'm just stating facts as objectively as possible. I'm talking about the community as a whole, and this includes me, devWAM as well. I'm putting no one down. Or prove it. Even in the past I might have been harsh in feedbacks at times, and that is a mistake, but I never forgot to be helpful.

Back when you wanted to come back I told you to start with something simple and to take your time, how is this putting people and smaller works down, when I actually suggest them.

Saying I'm putting people down is simply untrue.

"A lot of us are here for nostalgia, not to push any boundaries and bring things into 2011."

Once again, this was about promoting big projects outside the community. If I was all about hi-end next gen stuff, why am I making C1 cars the oldschool way? ...Talk about making me say what I didn't... Ofcourse pushing boundaries is cool. It's interesting, not necessary. It's meant to develop bigger projects, improve gameplay and level designs. It let us be more creative, that is all.

LJ, you actually sound like you didn't read or understand my posts correctly :sad:



SoupaVedg, once again I never said first cars should be incredible perfect addons. I'd be lying to myself even. My first C2 car has no interior and probably lacks most C2 features. You are talking about Pip, he's not a newcomer at all, he already made several advanced cars. No I didn't put him down at all. I just stated that the latest cars here were unfinished, considering C2 has a few vital features (the ones Coffeycup listed). This doesn't mean I don't like his models or have something against him.

I wanted all my posts deleted here because 1) at that angry moment I felt like it wasn't interesting anyone 2) anyway I wanted to handle that 'knowledge' differently. And I did: everything can be found on RR2000 and devWAM in the tutorials and other topics. Or on my devblog. And I continue as I'm willing to write an article about the SHELL model, and an abstract explaining how to put models into C1. I asked to delete my stuff from every site for the same reason, I don't like 90% of my addons and I either want to update them, or delete them.

There's no doubt about my motives: I'd like the community to become one again, very integer. But I don't think this very board can achieve it because it is too old, and nobody could really have access and take the time to work on it. That's why I turned CFe into devWAM. I wanted it to become a community portal first, then a forum gathering everything needed for actual development (links, tutorials, tricks, tools, articles, examples...). devWAM and RR2000 are almost twins as they share most of these assets.

As for people coming and trying to make it back in shape, well I'm sorry but it's not going to work. And I explained why one year ago. But also on this very forum two years ago. I did well not listening to LJ and asking you to explain yourself as now I understand what you and probably other people thinks. So no I'm not trying at all to slow down this place and promote mine. If you understand correctly what I said in these posts about the community and what I think should be done to keep the community alive, you'll see that I'm suggesting the CWA to evolve to something similar to devWAM. I'm not going to come back here you know but I'd like stuff to happen, and thus have more and better news to submit on devWAM news portal and then show an active face of the community, that'd be my aim/motive.

After everything I said here and the way I defended my robotic but actually helpful beheaviour, I have nothing to prove.

Why would people who didn't come back here for like 5 or 6 years, and actually didn't know about the forum erasure directly, log in and all of sudden say something when there's nothing to do. They simply were smarter than me. Seriously I miss that "Not to breath life into old aches" topic...



Now this was an interesting topic. Good thing we don't refrain just because we fear a flame war.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Lumberjack »


I even announced the C2 cars on TSS before you noticed them.
What an assumption. How dare you.

you actually sound like you didn't read or understand my posts correctly
I think this is the main problem. When speaking in text, there will always be those who interpret what you are writing in a way you didn't mean. It's worse than when speaking aloud.

If I have put you down, I am sorry. I don't want to argue about anything. If you can't see how I have interpreted what you posted the way I have, then there's not much point discussing it any further.

If there is a divided community, it could be because some people want it to go in one direction, and some people want another. Maybe it does make sense the way it is. Its an individual decision at the end of the day, and much as you try, you can't force it.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by SoupaVedg »

Ok, tell me if I'm wrong, but what I understood of your post, is that you kinda see yourself as the Carma messia? If so, what an ego...

Else, if you doesn't want to participate, ok, but don't try to kill the chick in the egg. Right now, we're trying something. We can either make it, or fail. But at least we'll try. You don't have the same point of view that we do? Well, I can live with that. Though I can't live with you trying to discourage us from trying.

Also about the vets, if they really care about Carma anymore, I'm sure they kinda look here from time to time. That's why, if they're looking here, I ask them, if they want to, to log in and talk with us. They should talk from themselves, perhaps they don't have the same view that you think you share with them. Perhaps they can't contribute as they used to, because of a lack of time or something, but they'd like to see this place to get new stuff in.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Toshiba-3 »

Ok, so both of you are starting to bitch around. I guess the flame war is about and this is my last post.

Lumberjack, considering all the assumptions you made about me supposedly putting people down, you're one to talk. And com'on, C2 cars have been added to TSS for like a month before I reported them, and the very next day of the devWAM news, you do the same on TSS. Yes this is an assumption, but you'll concede that it's a very easy one. Also this is just a mere detail seriously, don't you have something more interesting to quote. I could have said it differently, point was that I promoted newbies' cars.

Also I made myself very clear in my posts, stating several times what I was discussing. I tried to explain myself in details and long paragraphs (first because english isn't my mothertongue, secondly to avoid misinterpretation) so if you have misunderstood my opinions, I feel like it's because you have a bias about them beforehand. And there's nothing I can do against that.

Yes, the community is divided. A lot of people left, tired, etc. There's a problem somewhere. I don't see why things should stay like that. No I can't force it, but I can at least try on my own, and try to share my views and what I think are good advices. By coming talk in this thread this is what I did. If you see it as a conceitened attack against CWA, you are plain wrong and just have something against me.



SoupaVedg, yes you are wrong and what I just said to LJ applies to you as well. You are misunderstanding me because somehow you have bias about my person. You actually don't know me at all and just see what you interpret as bad beheaviour. 'Carma messiah'... what is that... where in my posts or even anywhere else did I suggest I was the only one etc. I stated the opposite in my first post here.

Yes I'm doing a lot, trying my best to get things moving. Is that a problem? Is it because it doesn't involve CWA? I DID try to get this place moving, but I've been turned down. Back then, Bollocks locked an important topic in my eyes, because it was "useless shit". This didn't help me stay here. The very same thing happened with AdR, we all remember it. We could somehow say the same about Beroc, who later tried to breathe some life in here by suggesting workshops and contests but it didn't last.

I do participate. I participate 200%. No need to rant on CWA for that you know. And for the last time: no I'm not 'killing the chick in the egg', I'm not putting people down. Read my posts again and you'll see I gave actual constructive advices on how to get this place running again. These might not be yours and I accept it without any problem. But don't come and make me say what I didn't.

Seriously you are starting to look very lame by repeating endlessly the same thing about me, when it clearly shows that I'm all about the opposite.



After this, why would I come back here? Nothing changed here. Why would anyone come back at all.

Reading both of you (why are you only two btw? I thought this place was reviving) one can only think that nothing will ever move. LJ, you'll probably disappear once again. SoupaVedg, you'll probably never make another car. Yet you are the ones talking big about this community and revival etc. I think you are dreaming. Yes there are people trying to keep this community alive and who search a new place for Carmageddon, but it's not you. Why are you guys even discussing, you'll do nothing, not even a single newbie car, not even a half assed skin. You are like these people who constantly open topics saying they have big ideas, will do this and that, and actually never do anything. Very tiring. Is that putting you down? No: I'm just stating facts. Bollocks' input would have been more valuable actually.

After my previous post I thought this was getting interesting. But actually I wasted my time once again. Reading your replies, I can see how you're not here to talk about this community activity but rather about me as a problem. If you don't care about what I have to offer to you, I seriously have better things to do. Like helping the new people, gathering and offering informations in an usable and accessible way, making content. Things you guys do not. Yet you find all kind of reasons to see me and my views as ill intentions. I defended myself, explained my opinions several times here in a polite way, but no you have to insist. Talking with both of you leads to nowhere, you ignore good points and focus on details or misinterpretation.



I'll just quote two bits of my posts to end my participation in this topic, as they are what I was willing to tell:

"I'm just trying to tell you that it's normal that it's dying and the community should change form/structure. Hoping endlessly it will revive all of sudden is the best way to end the community."

"Take your time. Make models/projects you actually want to make. Have fun. This is how you'll make the Carmageddon community look active and interesting."

Cheers,

Tosh



[edit] SoupaVedg, you are saying nonsense. And exagerating it. Nothing you imply can be found in my posts. I'm saying "this old place is dying, start something new, differently". Is it THAT hard to understand? Be it your opinion or not, don't make me say what I didn't, goddamnit.

How old are you actually? You sound like a 15yo boy extrapolating a lot of fantasies out of your mind. You read too much DC comics.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by SoupaVedg »

Look, I am not biased, I've read and re-read and even re-re-read your posts here, all I see you saying is that this place can't be saved, that we shouldn't even try, that it's useless, etc. After that I see you say that things should be all taken by your board that's how the Carma can actually be saved, that there's no other alternatives.

Again, I return to the fact that you tell us that we shouldn't even try. That's something I don't understand. Why don't you want us to try? What is actually scaring you in the fact that we try to save something that is dieing, perhaps even already dead? The worst that can happen is that it just die. But if we don't try, it'll die anyway. Right now, I think it's 99.9% dead, so the only bad thing that might happen, is that we finish what have been started. And then, there's the chance that we might bring it back. And make something good about it. Is that what frightening you?

I don't think you're stupid or anything. In fact, I think you're quite the intelligent man with a heck of a leadership skill. THO, I do think that you're misusing your leadership skills AND that you might be some opportunist and also that you're kinda self-centered. If somebody thinks like you, he's a good guy, if he think something else, he's to be destroyed, either by over criticism of his work until he/she leave, or by destroying his credibility in the community.

You're right, I don't know much about you, but I've seen what happened in the old days, I've been lurking quite often at your place and, while I haven't talked to you personnally, what I said in the prior paragraph is what I deduced from the actions you posed, back then and today.
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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by swintendo »

Here's an unbiased view from a new member and old forum user: you guys sound like a bunch of women.

You know what kills forums? Forum drama and trying too hard to revive it.

Now i don't see anything wrong with this being some sort of 'last hive' for carmageddon fans and modders or returning to a thriving community. But what are you all ranting about? Isn't this a forum? If that guy toshiba wants to bring in some kind of training ground for 3d people (sorry dude i didn't read your entire WALL of text), then let him. If the occasional guy with free time wants to toss an addon car on here, however crappy it is, then let him. If any of you wanna discuss the 'old days' then do that. Call it a slow forum. Whoever looks up carmageddon on google, WILL end up here.

But reviving? An old place about a very old game? Unless you turn this place into something totally different, it won't happen. Unless you all dig up old members and somehow create a perfect carmageddon 4 out of nowhere, it won't happen. Unless you can lure in the hundreds of new gamerkids who play some lame flash or java shit on their phone, wishing for a nice old violent and addicting game, who never even heard of carmageddon, it won't happen.

When a forum dies, it dies.

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Re: Who's active here (for LumberJack)

Post by Lumberjack »

Thanks Swintendo for the perspective.

Toshiba, I didn't want to argue here, and I wouldn't say I was focusing on misinterpreting (its not intentional!) and I didn't mean to say that you don't do anything. I think you are doing a fine job over at devwam, and its clear to me why you don't come here.

I never understood why people attacked you, and I am trying to put that from my mind because I think the negativity is a problem. To me you come across as a bit rude and sometimes mean and spiteful, it is probably just misinterpretation, and based on really only a few posts here and there that I've read.

I want you to understand that I respect you for maintaining your interest and for your efforts with keeping things moving.

And everyone should know that I didn't come here for a revival. In my opinion its not possible.

This argument was pointless, and I do wish that we'd just not bothered with it.
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