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Forsaken Brolly
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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Forsaken Brolly »

its the us's fault. takin advantage of everything. thats the same exact reason why the twin towers got bombed. Osama saw the stuff we had, and got so pissed off that he had to open up our eyes by bombin em. i got pissed off that when they got bombed, you saw flags and shit everywhere. where were all those flage b4 the towers got bombed? and where are they now? i think that the power outage is because of a overload from everbody usin a shitload o carp........

see, you got me all pissed off :mad: j/k :wink:
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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by autopilot »

well on yahoo main page i just say it said its probably from a link on ohio.. but.. i could care less.. and I dont understand why anyone does at all.. just a dumb power failure! theres my opinion :suicide: :sleep:
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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Forsaken Brolly »

yea, canada is kool. canada didnt do any of those things. so i say that its the us's fault.
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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Kruszchev »

heh... i dunno where i heard this... But a US aircraft carrier was outside Canadas coast, and was hailed by a canadian lighthouse... to move 15dergrees to the west... well the captin answerd... NO YOU!!! move 15degrees to the West... :grin:
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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Deep_Blue »

Ya know? it frickin' AMAZES me that the people who know the least are the first damn ones to pipe up and start blamin people.

SMB, Bush and Canada's PM aren't saying much because they don't know jack about power distribution.

It's not their jobs to know that stuff.

Who is to blame for this? Well YOU are. And ME and all of the other millions of people runnin' air conditioners and refrigerators and swimming pool pumps and other fairly heavy stuff that day.

Blame the heat, too. It worsens an already unstable situation.

Blame the fact that Canada and the U.S are interconnected power-wise.

IT'S NOT A POLITICAL ISSUE, 'K?

Wellnow-the problem WAS an overload-which also caused a "spike".

As I understand it this spike developed in Ohio and because some load-shedding safety measures failed-the spike was allowed into the EIS grid and spread from there until an alert power station operator in Vermont noticed it coming and immediately disconnected their grid from New England-effectively stopping the spread of damage. Blame a faulty breaker in an Ohio substaion.

Shit happens.

People we're talking amounts of current and voltages that if ya converted that same force into something solid like water-It would be akin to a large dam breaking and releasing a mountain-sized torrent of water that would wipe out everything in it's path.

Hard to stop it once it gains momentum.

Voltage and current are very closely related and if ya change one-it affects the other.

Most large breakers aren't like the ones you have to go down into your basement to reset by flicking a switch.

'S why it takes so long to get 'em back on again-these breakers are basically self-destructing fusible links in some places. Overload it and it fairly explodes, breaking the circuit and preventing the spread of damage.

Should that link or actual resettable thermal switch not respond in time (moving parts that tend to not be used on a regular basis get stuck) the damage then occurs to the stuff on the other side of it-transformers overheat and short internally or explode (they're full of oil for coolant/dielectric material-this oil pretty much turns it into a bomb when it gets too hot). The transformers can be the size of a small car up to as big as a large building-when one goes-the only way to fix it is to disconnect the power to it and replace it with a spare (assuming they've got one nearby).

Then there are the numerous "potheads" as they're called-additional fusible parts on the poles/towers themselves that self destruct in an overload (hell, sometimes the sun and winter/summer/hot/cold cycles weathers 'em and weakens 'em and they fail for the hell of it.

Then guys actually gotta find the bad ones and climb the pole/tower and manually replace 'em.

Blow up a shitload of 'em and it's gonna be awhile til the monkeys get 'em all fixed.

It's not a political issue here people-it's a physics thing-pure and simple, pull too much current thru something and it'll try to oblige until it destroys itself.

Ya don't believe me? Just try putting a small gauge wire directly across the terminals of your battery in yer car-something the size of a wire-tie. watch it turn white-hot and disintegrate before yer very eyes.

Now imagine that on a grand scale-say-a wire the size of your car's exhaust pipe.

We all know that electricity travels at the speed of light.

When things go wrong-sometimes even the quickest equipment can't catch it in time.

Most power generation plants and substations have load-shedding ability-where when the load gets too much-it'll start automatically shutting off parts of the grid (known as rolling blackouts) for periods of time to redistribute the load to parts of the grid that aren't overloaded-but if it's all overloaded-the load-shedding ability goes out the window-noplace to send the extra load on the lines to-and shit burns up.

Just so happens it was hot that day and everybody was loading down the northeast grid-so it tried to shed it's load to the upper half of the EIS (but they saw it coming and disconnected in time), so the load tried to shift into Canada and out west but I guess by then the load was already too high for that part of the system(the load never changed-'K-people were still drawing the same amount of current-only now there was less grid to carry it)-and as things overloaded and failed-(causing even LESS of the grid to carry the load (OK, Now we got this huge load being handled by only 1/3 of the system....

Boom-Boom................Out go da lights.

I say insteada pissin' about which country's faul it was-we oughtta be praisin' the guys who saw the shit goin bad and stopped it before all of Canada and the U.S. went dark.

They deserve an "attaboy" in my book. :lol:
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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Forsaken Brolly »

where do you get this stuff DB?
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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Deep_Blue »

FB, I took the time to learn it-a long time ago.

Somethin' ya oughtta try before shooting off the proverbial pie-hole.

I worked as a lineman's apprentice for Northeast Utilities for 2 years.

Ya gotta understand something about what yer working on so ya know how to keep it from killing you.

its the us's fault. takin advantage of everything. thats the same exact reason why the twin towers got bombed. Osama saw the stuff we had, and got so pissed off that he had to open up our eyes by bombin em. i got pissed off that when they got bombed, you saw flags and shit everywhere. where were all those flage b4 the towers got bombed? and where are they now? i think that the power outage is because of a overload from everbody usin a shitload o carp........




yea, canada is kool. canada didnt do any of those things. so i say that its the us's fault.


Your age is showing :smile:

That's typical of mob mentality thinking-and we all know that a mob is only as smart as the stupidest person in it.

Not callin' ya stupid, but I think ya oughtta have at least a slight clue what yer talkin' about before ya start blamin' people for stuff that goes wrong.

Who do ya blame when the car won't start? (Ya oughtta blame yerself for either not maintaining it correctly or paying attention to technical service bulletins.).

I've always figured that if people expended even HALF of the time and energy they use blaming somebody for a problem trying to prevent/fix it-there'd be fewer problems.

Or they'd be of shorter duration because the people who would have been part of the problem would then be working to solve it instead.

Like I said-it ain't a political thing-it's a series of physical laws that were folllowed to the letter.

The reason you have power today is because of a couple quick thinking guys and a system that did exactly what it was supposed to do in that event. It shut itself down to keep the damage from spreading further. Actually it was a pretty small area considering what it could've been (That "speed of light" thing, dig?).

Learn about shit sometimes-even if it doesn't interest you. You never know when that knowledge will save yer ass or help you understand a bad situation. :lol:

***When I die may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline***
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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Forsaken Brolly »

yea, thx fer tha advice :thumbsup:

no, see i wasnt blamin tha US for the outage, i was blamin it for the bombings....
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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Boose »

Glens Falls, NY -- blackout was for only 3 minutes.... strange that there was one, since that area is powered by HydroQuebec, or am i wrong?

DB, may be you have something to say concerning this small blackout?
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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Deep_Blue »

Quebec is on ther own grid-I hear they didn't lose much.

Ontario Hydro and the Eastern Interconnected States (EIS) was mainly where it was contained to.

Hydro Quebec prolly just got a line ripple that tripped a couple breakers momentarily before somebody that was payin' attention disconnected from the bad grid. I dunno exactly where we're all conected, but some places nearby me like New Haven-still had power.

The momentary blackout was prolly part of the load-shedding process (rolling blackouts are usually brief in duration til the loads are equalized).

I thought it was kinda funny that the Canadians said lightning hit a station in Niagara when the weather service said there wasn't any lightning within a hundred miles of there.

Classic case of shoot first and ask later, huh?

Shit just happens.

Doesn't matter who's to blame. What should matter is gettin' it fixed again.

What good is arguin' if yer doin' it in the dark? :lol:

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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Boose »

Thanky, that describes it pretty well :smile:
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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Deep_Blue »

Yeah well the only thing politicians are good at is chewing on their own feet. :smile:

The people who do the real work (putting the shit back together and making it work) are prolly pissed at all of the politicos-who the hell are they to say who's wrong?

The system we got here in the U.S. and Canada is a good system which we take for granted every day.

It could be better, but the guys who design these systems are met with obstacles everywhere they go.

We need more high voltage transmission lines. Which means more towers (EMF hazards).

Nobody wants towers in their backyard.

The tree-huggers protest and even sabotage efforts to improve the system.

Rights of way for lines are hard to get nowadays.

The system can only be as good as they're allowed to build it-doesn't work good enuf for you?

Vote for the new projects. Support the utilities.

As if we don't enuf already, but when they're forced to do stuff the hard way-we all pay the extra cost.

FB, the U.S. wasn't to blame for 9/11 if that's what you were sayin' (well, not entirely-but that's a whole nother topic.

It was a damn power failure, shit happens.
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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Deep_Blue »

Yeah, taxes are bad here, too. Gotta quit smokin' so I can stick around to put my boot in some politico's ass-lol.

Shit just costs too much.

Here in New Milford, a company called Sempra was about to build a steam generating plant which could've taken some of the load off the EIS grid.

The Environmentalists and the N.I.M.B.Y.s got the plan scrapped.

Hope they thought about the repercussions while they were sittin' in the dark and the celly and the computer wouldn't work.



Coulda been different.

Ya gotta pay attention to what the politicos are sayin' because they're deciding our immediate future, dig?

Say something if ya think what they're doin is wrong.
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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Deep_Blue »

:grin: The 17 yr olds are the ones that are gonna make the difference. Choose your words and actions carefully-you'll hafta live with the results :wink: I'll be dead by then and you'll be the ones gripin' about things :lol: Just remember what us old soldiers already figured out and take it from there.

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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Alan »

Hello! I agree with Deep_Blue here. Quit dumping on the US... Damn slack-jawed foreigners.. and Forsaken Brolly said This:

"its the us's fault. takin advantage of everything. thats the same exact reason why the twin towers got bombed. Osama saw the stuff we had, and got so pissed off that he had to open up our eyes by bombin em. i got pissed off that when they got bombed, you saw flags and shit everywhere. where were all those flage b4 the towers got bombed? and where are they now? i think that the power outage is because of a overload from everbody usin a shitload o carp........

see, you got me all pissed off j/k "

For your information I'm trying to cut down on carp, my real preference is cod!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :suicide:
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Re: Blame the U.S. or Canada ?

Post by Deep_Blue »

OK, as ya all prolly know by now-the problem is figured to have started just outside Cleveland, Ohio-earlier in the day they had some problems with three 345 kV transmission lines-first a tree fell across one of them and momentarily shorted to the one next to it-causing the first one to 'trip' a breaker (boom).

Then the second one (that got hot from shorting on the first one-these suckers aren't insulated) and sagged into the third one, shorting those two lines also. (boom-blam)

Quick-what's 345x3?

A systems operator saw an 800 MW (that's "millions of Watts") surge flowing out of the northeast into Ontario's grid-but then immediately noticed it flowing back (heh-they saw it coming and disconnected some stuff, but not enuf in time) and killing breakers and shutting down generators all along the way.

By the time everybody reacted-it was too late to stop it-the damage was already done.

Eight states and a big chunka Canada lookin' for flashlights.

s'now yaknow.

At least as much as I do :smile:
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