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Not to breath life into old ashes

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Beroc-Lord of Destruction
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Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Beroc-Lord of Destruction »

I got to looking around on the web, and found this:

http://www.conitec.net/a4info.htm

It is a high end 3d engine, capable of doing some pretty fancy stuff. However, the minimum cost of it is $50, The upper end is $900, however, $900 is a far cry from $150,000, and it handles some of the basic elements that you would need to make a game the size of GTA. It pushes 100,000 to 200,000 polygons, and the high end supports Geometry LOD's which can make a world miles away still appear on the screen. It is all C-Script, not to dissimilar to Java and C++. The high end handles Bone animation, mirrors and some other cool effects, not to mention a full physics engine. (there is a plugin for that for the lower models (free)) It also supports Lan and Multi-Player(client/server) mode.

If anyone is interested, I am sure I can spot $50 to get started, or $1000 if it hits that level.

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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Lumberjack »

This possibly aimed towards ruin nation? If anyone here does in fact have some experience with something like this, they could give it a go. Although the website does say it is supposed to be a point and click affair, do you have the time to make an attempt yourself Beroc?
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Beroc-Lord of Destruction »

I dunno how much work I will do towards that end, however, I will make a simple script that will export a model to a wdl, or whatever it is, so you can import a terrain in the demo. Then I will see about making a box you can control on that terrain... Easy stuff. We will see where it goes from there.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by blacksunshine »

sure!!! :rofl:
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Lumberjack »

Just one question, in buying a 'copy' of this, does that allow you to share it with others? Because it is much more likely to succeed if we can share the learning process and workload between us. Also in terms of copyright, would it be bad to use carma maps? It seems as though the engine would come with a 'prefab' coding that allows a driving type game to be set up fairly quickly, so making that box might be pretty straightforward, yes.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Beroc-Lord of Destruction »

K, I have been looking pretty heavily into this, and I found some good qualities and some bad ones...

The engine is MDL based. Exporters are available for max, maya and various high end 3d applications.
Lighting may be a big issue with the engine, I have posted questions about that, and will get back to that later.
The low end version of this engine does not support terrains, however that is not the biggest question, more if external files can be loaded via an script, and implimented in the game.
If this is possible it will be possible to LOD the terrain, giving the ability to make some truely massive worlds.
Only the highest end game comes with a physics engine, however, a free verison, which seems to be very popular is available as a plugin. It comes with Car templates, so that is good.
I am looking into Vertex animation versus bone animation(bones are better, and will do more in the end)

If all of these questions come back as positive, then this will be a good engine to use. However, things may be a bit more limited, depending on how many of these features are not available.

As far as game development over multiple coders is concerned, we can cross that road when we find it. Right now, development is a little ways off.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Beroc-Lord of Destruction »

As it was told to me:

Lighting problems may be specific to objects exported out of 3ds Max(I will do some testing on this using Maya, as well as different versions of Max)

There is a Infinite World Script that handles massive worlds, though it isnt exactly what I need, it sets the stage to get started on something of that nature.

Til after the 4th...
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Lumberjack »

Feasability is the main issue I guess... what exactly are we looking to do with this? Create a new carmageddon game?
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by NitroX »

I have a number of programs like thus. Say, Blitz, Dark Basic, Ethos, etc., I'm not really an expert, but, I know many guys who professionally have made games with them. www.snaz3d.com - very nice 3d shooter game! Romanian guy, great modeller and programmer :smile:
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Beroc-Lord of Destruction »

Well, 3d GameStudio is a pretty spiffy piece of software, however, the cost of $1000 is a bit steep, so I am looking into a full C++ Engine called 3Impact

http://www.3impact.com/

Cool Demo

Looks pretty spiffy atm. I think everything is x format, which can be a good thing, at least it is all directx compatible, and looks pretty easy to use.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by NitroX »

Looks very promising.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Beroc-Lord of Destruction »

Even more promising is the Torque engine... Cost is $100 for the standard engine, and $150 for the shader addon to it.

http://www.garagegames.com/pg/product/view.php?id=1

Demos:
ftp://demos.garagegames.com/tge/TorqueG ... mo_1_3.exe
ftp://demos.garagegames.com//tge/Torque ... taller.exe

As well as it is OS X and Linux Compatible.

As well... Garage Games offers a Publication liscense for about 35 percent cost of the revenue. Which means if we sell 1000 copies world wide at $50 each, that is $50,000 or $32,500, say 10 poeple work on it, that is $3,250 each. Um for a scant investment and time you make money, not to mention that it is a marketed game that you can take to a real game company.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by NitroX »

Ah, Heard alot of good things about the new Torque 2d engine. I'm near broke though, I have a good contract this summer, so I'll get some $$$ out of that.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Lumberjack »

Realistically I think you're looking at $10-15 per copy of the finished game, at least until a good publisher picks it up. Beroc it seems to me as though you would like to invest some time in this, but perhaps do not have any spare... what are the methods for making a game in such a program? For example how would you write the code to make a car move? If its a case of adapting some examples, that might not be so hard, but having to write the code from scratch with no clue of where to start would be quite difficult for most of us, if not all. Personally I am happy to try, but I would not be able to commit to investing any time in it.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Beroc-Lord of Destruction »

Well, that is the big question... Torque comes with two template applications to help people get started. A FPS shooter template and a Racing template, They already figured out how to do all the minimal stuff, so the code is there, we just have to modify it and play, until we get something that is right.

I have a good idea of how much time it would take to code some of the initial stuff, but getting the whole thing to work will probably take quite a bit of time. However, getting started is pretty much the easy part.

If I was doing it all myself, then I may take some easy steps and gimp out, make a poorer quality game then I wanted to in the begining, however, with a group of talented guys, maybe not coders, but guys who play games quite a bit, a good game can come. I for one will not sit idly by and let a poor quality model go, simply cos it is a model.

As far as time, I can invest some time into coding, some into modeling and such. Mostly, I am into overall work. I have a bit of a knack for comming up with usable soloutions for various things. Such as first, How do you make a map. One could say, "You make a building and keep going." However, I say, you make many small pieces and have the game load them up and display them as you need. Use Torques LOD capabilities to really make a good impression. (Check out the demos for that.) Further more, In order to get it done, you use a method put into place by GTA, you create a script of parts, that script tells what part goes where, and what its core LOD distances are. I am not sure how the environment handles it, but perhaps you have to have seperate collision meshes for each piece too. So each of us could handle a small section of a city, export it over as a new mesh, and have the game stitch it all back together. (Course, that all sounds a little too simple, I can easily make a script that will setup and export all of these pieces, and make the script all in one shot.)

Getting started is not the hard part, nor is the money, for $100, you get yourself started, I can blow $100 in a day very easily, and get nothing out of it (hence the day after the 4th of July, I must have had alot of money to burn... LOL)

The real question is who wants to do this type of thing, it will require alot of models time, and probably redoing everything we have already done to conform to the engine specs. A good C++ programmer would be nice, I usually get very frustrated with C++, however, I actually got some of of another engine to work right last night, that is a good sign. Other then Programmers, Modelers, Texture Artists and Coders, that is pretty much it.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by autopilot »

I think most people round here would only know the modelling/texturing part (some better/worse than others).

When I first heard of Ruin Nation I thought to myself "heh... thats never gonna go anywhere" and here we are.

I think if you're confident in the end you can actually have a working game given time, for $100 to start off that you say you can blow no big deal, well I say go for it; there are lots of people around here that could help in the modelling area, course I think most would just be there for you in the car modelling department, hehe.
I also hope everything be re-don as you said, all the vehicles that were shown, im not all crazy about them really, some are really good, but some could be a lot better I feel, at least textured with a more "professional" approach anyway.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Beroc-Lord of Destruction »

Ditto on that part.

K, 33mb download coming $100 spent, time to get to some real design info.

Was wondering if someone who operates this board could be so kind as to help us set up a nice "Private" forum.

Lets get a role call of people who really want to work on this.

Any programmers out there who know C++ already would be great, other then that, I am gonna learn it... No, really this time I will.

We need some concept artists, 3d artists, texture artists. Level designers and lighting specialists. I will get as many specs on the engine as I can for you guys. I got basic coding covered, that is the easy part.

Lets see what we can accomplish.

Thanks ahead of time guys.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Toshiba-3 »

3D artists, texture artists? Level designers and lighting specialists ?!

Not that I'm excellent in anything, but my Radian project for Postal²
shows that I can create nice looking atmosphere and all in 2d and 3D
from scratch easily.
If something starts... I'm in :eek:

But just because you said " this time I will" :grin:
May be an excellent project and a cool experience.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Alex_Dynamite »

*sigh* Too bad there wasn't something I could do to help...
I shouda learned to program.
What's the concept artist?
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Beroc-Lord of Destruction »

A concept artist draws out basic ideas to be modeled. He must have a good idea of the overall scheme of the project, create drawings(hand drawn pencil stuff, color or not) for game pieces and such.

One of the industries best...

http://www.artbyfeng.com/
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by NitroX »

Well. If there's money involved in this, I could probably get quite a few guys over here.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Beroc-Lord of Destruction »

I am thinkin we need about 10 or so quality people. I am not exactly lookin to make the world here. I am lookin to maybe make my $100 back.... LOL
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by NitroX »

hmm. Well, to let you know Beroc, Summer is the worst time to start a project which invloves computers. I doubt I can find even 5 quality people to be consistent anyway, I mean, so many people on vacation, and others still have work in the summer and are just as busy. And many still in college or high school have summer jobs.

I know from experience, I have seen many summer projects just fall in the gutter due to lack of people. I know waiting along time till september may be worse, I'm just saying, summer projects aren't easy to get people for.

but for now, I'll subscribe you to snaz: snaz3d@gmail.com .. Don't know where he is for summer, but I'll talk to a few more people and I'll see who I can hook you up with. If your looking for music or tunes for the game, I can make some in about.. a week or two?
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Beroc-Lord of Destruction »

Just got a hold of my old buddy Cadster, if anyone remembers the poor guy. He just so happens to be in the 3d gaming industry, and knows of a good programmer that may be willing to help on the project. Damn contacts are good.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Lumberjack »

Oh yeah CADster, moved to the GTA scene? Anyway, I know Perl (not fluently of course, there is a lot of it) so syntax etc with C++ should be ok. I am certainly willing to try, at least, but to start with some template code would be very useful. I think Alex might be able to come up with some concepts? Coding is a major one here I think, we certainly have a lot of modelers/skinners.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by keroltarr »

Howdy folks,

I like the direction this thread is going!
It sounds like you folks are serious about this.
:shock:
Count me in part time. I can do some stuff.
I can do some modelling if I can get my modelling program to working again.
I can definitely do concept art.
I'm also a programmer (but not C++).

Also, I don't know if this would be useful or not:
http://www.ode.org
its for physics simulation, I think.

anyway, count me in.
I'm ready to start concept arting any time. :wink:
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Junkpile »

Honestly, I really didn't believe that there was any interest in the Ruiin-Nation project any more. It does my heart good to see that there is! :grin: Everything that you have discovered & dome up with thus far look's wxrewmwly promising. Hopefully it will take the project somewhere this time. As to me being involved, this is the wrong time of the year for me to even think about anything like that. I am just WAY too busy! I barely have time to do my E-Mail nightly right now let alone do much of anything else. But, I will be making more of an attempt to check this board more often since this is going on! :cool: If all things work out, I'll have more time come Autumn...

@ Beroc; Hey! Are you hijacking my comcept?!? :mad: :supermad: :rofl: I'm just kidding, Buddy! I love what you're doing. I could probably do some concept work on the project seeing as how it originally crept from the depths of my depraved mind anyways... In fact, O've still got some unfinished stuff around here somewhere. Also, I have been approached about turning Ruiin-Nation into a table-top RPG game by two different companies. I'm seriously considering one of the offer's.

Hmmm... It look's like I'm going to seriously have to try to get my scanner working again now. Just one more item on my "To-Do" list. I appreciate the resurrected interest in the project vastly!
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by random_monkey »

I learnt some C++ at uni, but it wasn't my strongest of programming languages... I'm fine until it comes to using pointers and references. I tend to drop out there - which is probably not what you're needing at all, as this is nowhere near as low as anything I can do :wink:

So, count me in if you need me (as well as for textures, models and all that gubbins) - but it sounds like you're covered. *shrug*
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Beroc-Lord of Destruction »

The Torque engine is mostly C Script, not C++, though it bears a strong resemblence to C++. Once the engine is compiled, the rest of the game is scripts. I have played with various engines like it, but not this one.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by random_monkey »

What are the damage prospects looking like? Anything existing in that way or would it be another scratch jobby?
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by Beroc-Lord of Destruction »

dunno any of that yet.
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Re: Not to breath life into old ashes

Post by NitroX »

Hard C coded. well, C++ was based off the original C, so it should be somewhat similar for you all. I'd like to help, but I've only programmed 2d. cheers to you all.
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