http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/04/steam-workshop-lets-users-sell-mods-but-only-shares-25-percent-of-revenue/
What do you guys think? Will Stainless be jumping on this as well?
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Steam Monetizes Mods
Steam Monetizes Mods
i think it's bullshit.
Personally i want modders to be paid, but not this ridiculous shit, that i've seen yesterday on SKYRIM.
And why should the developer/publisher get a percentage of the earnings? I mean it would be ok if you gave that to small companies, but what the fuck does Zenimax, Valve, EA, Ubisoft, C$P, and Activision need that shit anyway?
Personally i want modders to be paid, but not this ridiculous shit, that i've seen yesterday on SKYRIM.
And why should the developer/publisher get a percentage of the earnings? I mean it would be ok if you gave that to small companies, but what the fuck does Zenimax, Valve, EA, Ubisoft, C$P, and Activision need that shit anyway?
Steam Monetizes Mods
As a skyrim modder or rather an elder scrolls modder sins morrowind I have to say ; I hate this idea.
they should push for donations but never out right let an modder put a pay wall up , thats just stupid.
however in protest against this new system I was told I was going to get my first donation from a fan of one of my mods so thats nice , but he told me thats what he wanted I never even asked
they should push for donations but never out right let an modder put a pay wall up , thats just stupid.
however in protest against this new system I was told I was going to get my first donation from a fan of one of my mods so thats nice , but he told me thats what he wanted I never even asked
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Gravedrinker
- hit n run
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Steam Monetizes Mods
A donation button would suffice in my opinion. Them taking 75% of the money and only paying out at $100 is bullshit as well I find. Bethesda has no business in monetizing other peoples mods a second time either I feel, their games already profit immensely from the mod community and the sales it drives are probably not meager either.
Twitter/Instagram: @Gravedrinker
Steam Monetizes Mods
this option already exists for a decent amount of time ... skyrim is just the latest entry that wants to use this feature
nobody cared till now
+ steam does nothing than offering an option ... the modder him / herself can choose if they want money
blame the modder for clicking the "i want money button" ... nobody forces them to do so
nobody cared till now
+ steam does nothing than offering an option ... the modder him / herself can choose if they want money
blame the modder for clicking the "i want money button" ... nobody forces them to do so
Steam Monetizes Mods
I don't understand why the developers/publishers take a part of the money. Mod allows the game itself to have a longest commercial life, because you have to buy the original game to play the mod and Mod made free advertisement to a game , even years after the release. So allowing mods is already beneficial for publisher and original developpers.
I can understand a donation for modders ... but paying for mods with publisher and steam that take 75% wtf.
I can understand a donation for modders ... but paying for mods with publisher and steam that take 75% wtf.
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Gravedrinker
- hit n run
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Steam Monetizes Mods
Apparently Tripwire just updated their EULA to specifically disallow paid mods for Killing Floor 2. Screenshot by evenstar40 on reddit: 
Twitter/Instagram: @Gravedrinker
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'80s Time Warp
- Road Warrior
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Steam Monetizes Mods
If a modder would like to ask for money, so they can keep doing the things they love, then that is their right. If an individual has spent months upon months of their time working on something (when they could of just spent that time working in a regular job), then I don't see it as being unreasonable to ask for a contribution to support that work. 'Donations' or a 'Pay what you think is reasonable' system is probably the best way to go, but only if the majority of the payment were to go to the Author. A 75% royalty fee going primarily to Valve & other corporate entities is a total rip-off.
On the flip side - If a user doesn't want to pay for a 'paid mod', then they can simply choose not to buy it. It does also specify that unsatisfied users can request a refund within 24 hours of purchase.
On the flip side - If a user doesn't want to pay for a 'paid mod', then they can simply choose not to buy it. It does also specify that unsatisfied users can request a refund within 24 hours of purchase.
Just another '80s Dreamer....
Twitter Manifestation. - Mods for Max Damage.
Please do not use my old/deadname.
Twitter Manifestation. - Mods for Max Damage.
Please do not use my old/deadname.
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TwIsTeDMiNd
- speed freak
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Steam Monetizes Mods
I'm not too keen about this either. A donation button would have be just fine. Now my question is...does it mean as soon as a game support steam workshop, a modder can automatically ask for money? If it's the case, it doesn't make sense to not give choice to the developer to allow such a thing. I mean, some indie devs out there strongly emphasis on free mod support to extend life of their games and probably some of them won't want to change their economical/financial model just to please gabe newell, because they know it's not every gamers who want to pay additionnal fees for mods. It should be on developers hands to choose to monetize or not, at least.
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C2 Scientist
- jaywalker
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Steam Monetizes Mods
I agree that the 25/75 deal is rather screwed up.
Other than that, ideally, if you wanted to quit your day job and try to make modding a career for you with a reliable income, the choice should be yours. The money aspect should make more fierce competition, although there will likely be a sudden influx of crap mods from people who are hoping to make big bucks easily. :-)
As for Carmageddon; I guess this could be one way to get us new environments of high quality. In the previous titles, there were thousands of fan-made addon cars, skins and peds or varying quality, because those are relatively quick to create. Creating a complete environment from scratch, however, is a much larger project, requiring a lot of spare time, keeping up the motivation, and various essential modding skills, including modeling, texturing and level design. It's a huge task for a one guy, and so would be better suited for a small team of talented and motivated individuals. And if such a team could bring us new environments* that match the quality of those in C:R, they would certainly have earned a monetary compensation for their efforts.
But anyway, at this time I'm not holding my breath to see the above in action. :-)
* Especially the full-size environments such as Dusty Trails and Bleak City, rather than the smaller multiplayer arenas.
Other than that, ideally, if you wanted to quit your day job and try to make modding a career for you with a reliable income, the choice should be yours. The money aspect should make more fierce competition, although there will likely be a sudden influx of crap mods from people who are hoping to make big bucks easily. :-)
As for Carmageddon; I guess this could be one way to get us new environments of high quality. In the previous titles, there were thousands of fan-made addon cars, skins and peds or varying quality, because those are relatively quick to create. Creating a complete environment from scratch, however, is a much larger project, requiring a lot of spare time, keeping up the motivation, and various essential modding skills, including modeling, texturing and level design. It's a huge task for a one guy, and so would be better suited for a small team of talented and motivated individuals. And if such a team could bring us new environments* that match the quality of those in C:R, they would certainly have earned a monetary compensation for their efforts.
But anyway, at this time I'm not holding my breath to see the above in action. :-)
* Especially the full-size environments such as Dusty Trails and Bleak City, rather than the smaller multiplayer arenas.
Steam Monetizes Mods
While the environment thing is a valid point, it could be also said about cars. Creating a high quality car mod that matches that of the CR cars (and even going beyond what the Stainless team have done) also requires a lot of time and effort from one person so its not a strech to say that even cars could be made by small teams of say 2 or 3 people in the interest of time.C2S wrote:...
On topic though, the 25 cents to a dollar deal is scamtastic to say the least, a donate if you like button would have sufficed just fine. I do believe that if it was though out correctly it could create incentive for modders to spend more time creating content, but it comes with a whole slew of issues that could arise such as people uploading other peoples work and asking money for it (mod packs I'm looking at you).
Steam Monetizes Mods
Sorry I got a headache :) Didnt read it all.
Doesnt matter if they monetize it anyway. It can easily be "pirated". I have seen this a lot in 3D studio Max.
You cant really offer piracy protection to things like 3D models , etc. Even if they ask for an "unlock code" a generator can easily be made. Heck people are still making keygens for 3DS max and the company is actually giving away that program for free.
Doesnt matter if they monetize it anyway. It can easily be "pirated". I have seen this a lot in 3D studio Max.
You cant really offer piracy protection to things like 3D models , etc. Even if they ask for an "unlock code" a generator can easily be made. Heck people are still making keygens for 3DS max and the company is actually giving away that program for free.
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Freeride Forever
- turbo bastard
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Steam Monetizes Mods
From the article it sounds like they've got a solid setup there. 25% is arguably kife, but donating some of the rest to a "good" cause chosen by the modder is a good way to compensate there that I like the sound of too. If they did 25% to each then I kinda think that sounds good.
Yeah I'm down with a "Donate" option. That's the best way to go, but each modder should have their choice. Maybe devs could even do something through their sites. I don't imagine anyone around here would have a prob donating to the modders through the site & letting Stainless take a cut. I'd be down with that. Maybe Gabe's got a legal noose around that idea though except he seems like the last guy to actively try to fuck up a good thing. M$ would, but I'd expect better from the Steamsquanch. Y'know?
Yeah I'm down with a "Donate" option. That's the best way to go, but each modder should have their choice. Maybe devs could even do something through their sites. I don't imagine anyone around here would have a prob donating to the modders through the site & letting Stainless take a cut. I'd be down with that. Maybe Gabe's got a legal noose around that idea though except he seems like the last guy to actively try to fuck up a good thing. M$ would, but I'd expect better from the Steamsquanch. Y'know?
Steam Monetizes Mods
Before I throw in my opinion, I'll clarify some things for those who are a bit confused:
Do I think it's good? Or do I think it's bad? Yes to both.
Making meaningful mods is incredibly time consuming these days due to the complexity of games and the quality art needed for them. If someone spends weeks or months working on a quality mod then there's nothing wrong with them getting some money for their efforts. Some people think charging for mods will ruin modding communities because no one will buy mods so no one will play them, but I think the opposite. If people know they can earn from modding then they will be much more likely to invest their time into it, otherwise they're much better off using their talents to make games with Unreal Engine or Unity instead of making mods.
It's not like mods haven't been sold before either. I bet if you looked in the libraries of all the people throwing shitfits on the steam forums about this then yo are sure to see they bought games like Red Orchestra, DayZ or Garry's Mod, which are originally, ya know, mods, which adds a bit of irony to their complaints against buying mods. Why are those mods okay to be sold but others not?
So, yes, I think modders being able to earn money for their hard work is a very good thing. Anyone can put up a mod, set their price and sell it, which is also why it's a very bad idea for it to be done the way Valve is doing it. Modding communities have always been vulturous when it comes to appropriating other people's work and claiming it as their own, such as FerrariFan1373's Ultra Car Pack which he spent so much time and effort downloading all the cars he could find and zipping them up without even mentioning the original modders; or BugatiDriver90210's many cars which he just moved a few polygon around on and claimed he made them entirely; or XHamiltonXVettelX ripping cars out of Need Forza Tourismo 8 with the minimum of effort; or DavokinOfObliviwind releasing his own HD graphics and shader enhancement pack, where he's just tweaked settings on other people's graphics mods.
Those are obviously fictitious things, but those are the sorts of things which happen all the time in modding communities, sometimes even ending up more popular than the original mods. Obviously a lot of people will jump at the chance to sell mods even when they havent actually made them, and with Valve's policy of the community policing the mods it will inevitably mean people will not get caught. It will also lead to people accusing mods of being stolen when they're not, as Steam is full of such trolls.
There's also already loads of people abusing the system by putting up mods such as an extra apple on a table in on of Skyrim's towns and wanting to charge £20 for it. That makes a mockery of the whole thing and gives the angry mob protesting against monetised mods something to point at as an example of why the whole thing is so awful and lump all the legitimate creators in with it. Not to mention such troll mods end up getting more exposure than legitimate mods, even if no one buys them. It's pretty much going down the same route as Greenlight, which has ended up as a joke.
So, yes, I think developers should be allowed to have the option to let hard working mod creators have the option to earn money of their work. And, yes, I think the way Valve has set this up is awful and just asking for trouble.
- Developers can choose whether they want to allow mods to be sold, it's not automaticly enabled if the game uses Steam Workshop.
- Developers can choose how much of the revenue a modder will get from selling his mods, it's not globally set at 25%, that is just what Bethesda set it to
- Mods put on steam workshop for a game which supports selling them do NOT have to be sold, they can be free.
Do I think it's good? Or do I think it's bad? Yes to both.
Making meaningful mods is incredibly time consuming these days due to the complexity of games and the quality art needed for them. If someone spends weeks or months working on a quality mod then there's nothing wrong with them getting some money for their efforts. Some people think charging for mods will ruin modding communities because no one will buy mods so no one will play them, but I think the opposite. If people know they can earn from modding then they will be much more likely to invest their time into it, otherwise they're much better off using their talents to make games with Unreal Engine or Unity instead of making mods.
It's not like mods haven't been sold before either. I bet if you looked in the libraries of all the people throwing shitfits on the steam forums about this then yo are sure to see they bought games like Red Orchestra, DayZ or Garry's Mod, which are originally, ya know, mods, which adds a bit of irony to their complaints against buying mods. Why are those mods okay to be sold but others not?
So, yes, I think modders being able to earn money for their hard work is a very good thing. Anyone can put up a mod, set their price and sell it, which is also why it's a very bad idea for it to be done the way Valve is doing it. Modding communities have always been vulturous when it comes to appropriating other people's work and claiming it as their own, such as FerrariFan1373's Ultra Car Pack which he spent so much time and effort downloading all the cars he could find and zipping them up without even mentioning the original modders; or BugatiDriver90210's many cars which he just moved a few polygon around on and claimed he made them entirely; or XHamiltonXVettelX ripping cars out of Need Forza Tourismo 8 with the minimum of effort; or DavokinOfObliviwind releasing his own HD graphics and shader enhancement pack, where he's just tweaked settings on other people's graphics mods.
Those are obviously fictitious things, but those are the sorts of things which happen all the time in modding communities, sometimes even ending up more popular than the original mods. Obviously a lot of people will jump at the chance to sell mods even when they havent actually made them, and with Valve's policy of the community policing the mods it will inevitably mean people will not get caught. It will also lead to people accusing mods of being stolen when they're not, as Steam is full of such trolls.
There's also already loads of people abusing the system by putting up mods such as an extra apple on a table in on of Skyrim's towns and wanting to charge £20 for it. That makes a mockery of the whole thing and gives the angry mob protesting against monetised mods something to point at as an example of why the whole thing is so awful and lump all the legitimate creators in with it. Not to mention such troll mods end up getting more exposure than legitimate mods, even if no one buys them. It's pretty much going down the same route as Greenlight, which has ended up as a joke.
So, yes, I think developers should be allowed to have the option to let hard working mod creators have the option to earn money of their work. And, yes, I think the way Valve has set this up is awful and just asking for trouble.
a.k.a. Brent
Steam Monetizes Mods
ok with that ... but what about the "support" of the mod you paid ...
I mean you know that some mods can work with an other one, and some are simply incompatible between them.
Actually, mods are free, and it can need hours of tuning for a user to make his perfect game with different mods ... users are not angry if there is a compatibility problem because mods are free ... but tomorrow? when users will pay mods, it give us the right to complain about compatibility issue ... to be fed up with this.
You will have a notation system for your mods and it could ruin your reputation because your mod is incompatible with an other.
I mean you know that some mods can work with an other one, and some are simply incompatible between them.
Actually, mods are free, and it can need hours of tuning for a user to make his perfect game with different mods ... users are not angry if there is a compatibility problem because mods are free ... but tomorrow? when users will pay mods, it give us the right to complain about compatibility issue ... to be fed up with this.
You will have a notation system for your mods and it could ruin your reputation because your mod is incompatible with an other.
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Mad_Maxine
- Pink
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Steam Monetizes Mods
well all ill say is this,
After years of making things in my own time as a hobby, for nothing, I refuse to ever Pay for a mod unless it is spcifically commisioned by myself, That is all.
Edit:
uh wait? I just read it a little better but I dont know whats going on now.
Does this mean users will have to Pay to download mods as if it were DLC? or just that modders will earn a small amount from steam its self? Explain me
After years of making things in my own time as a hobby, for nothing, I refuse to ever Pay for a mod unless it is spcifically commisioned by myself, That is all.
Edit:
uh wait? I just read it a little better but I dont know whats going on now.
Does this mean users will have to Pay to download mods as if it were DLC? or just that modders will earn a small amount from steam its self? Explain me
Steam Monetizes Mods
if a modder put his mod on steam he can ask to be paid or to put his mod for free ... if he ask to be paid, this is users that will buy his mod (like a dlc)
Steam Monetizes Mods
Both actually!Mad_Maxine wrote:
Edit:
uh wait? I just read it a little better but I dont know whats going on now.
Does this mean users will have to Pay to download mods as if it were DLC? or just that modders will earn a small amount from steam its self? Explain me
Steam Monetizes Mods
Well, this whole ordeal was short.
https://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218
Everyone is free to praise GabeN as the God of the pcmasterrace once again.
edit
altough this thread should be in another section of the forum... like "general gaming" or "off topic"
https://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218
Everyone is free to praise GabeN as the God of the pcmasterrace once again.
edit
altough this thread should be in another section of the forum... like "general gaming" or "off topic"
Steam Monetizes Mods
Topic/post organisation in this community is almost non-existent :-)skyNET wrote:Well, this whole ordeal was short.https://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218
Everyone is free to praise GabeN as the God of the pcmasterrace once again.
edit
altough this thread should be in another section of the forum... like "general gaming" or "off topic"
If you want to report bugs or want to ask for features DO NOT USE FORUM FOR THAT! Instead send it to developers HERE: https://carmageddon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
Steam Monetizes Mods
The only reason I posted this in the CR section is I had hoped we could get a dev's reply on the matter but since the whole thing has been pulled(for now) it doesn't matter anymore.
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