Cops in Carmageddon II

[Tarquin]

When I was looking through the race data for each map, I noticed that it still has the "number of cop start locations" listed which were in the carmageddon 1 maps.

However, if I tried to delete this line, the map would no longer load - so the game does indeed still read from this but even after setting up a cop location thinking it may still work - nothing extra happens, but the map does load with no problems.

Is it at all possible to get extar cops starting in the maps or any other extra opponent that is not included on the opponent / wasted list?
Or has the main part of the cop code been removed from the game meaning its impossible to have cops lurking away somewhere in the maps.

[Lumberjack]

Have a look at the stuff for the mission where all opponents are cops. That might provide some insight..

[Tarquin]

I've had a look at that,
They use this thing in the races.txt that changes any current opponent into what ever you want. So they had 12 opponents then had 12 opponent replacements all of which were racer number 51 (which is the cop)
I've even edited that and made it so there were 11 opponent 51's and 1 opponents 89 (which is the Suppressor in my game).


Sadly that changes the opponents, I would like to add cops in extra - so they're not opponents and don't need to be wasted nor count towards the wasted limit.

The thing is I can't see anything anywhere that tells the game what a cop is, so its quite pointless to have cop locations if the game doesn't know what to put in those locations.

I really wanted to have a look at the "blood on the roof tops" race file from Carmageddon 1 as that had the Supressor in the game. The Suppressor isn't a normal cop so the race file must have something somewhere that tells the game that 1 of them cop locations will have the Supressor instead of a Cop.
If I had that text file then I might be able to get this to work.

So new question, can anyone send me a readable blood on the roof tops race txt file from carmageddon 1? It should be called "CITYB3."
All mine are encrypted. (well except the castle txt files which is how I found out how to setup a cop start location)
I know there is a tool out there that can convert these and read them but I don't know the tool or know what to look for.

[Lumberjack]

Try Carmegedit in this page, I think it can unencrypt the files. But then you have to edit some setting to allow the game to read the unencrypted files.. I think its in the readme or something.
If you have some info you'd like to share, especially about C1, perhaps you might like to write a few tutorials for us.

[Tarquin]

Hey thanks again,


But after looking at the file, alls I can see about Cops are what is listed in any other race file:

10 // Number of cop start points
14.660, -3.300, 177.920, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000 // Cop start point #0
-25.187, -8.640, 287.560, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000 // Cop start point #1
12.190, -3.300, 119.260, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000 // Cop start point #2
-33.250, -3.280, 157.650, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000 // Cop start point #3
-49.990, -3.280, 131.790, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000 // Cop start point #4
72.340, -3.280, 223.770, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000 // Cop start point #5
-158.147, -3.300, 113.103, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000 // Cop start point #6
-74.129, -3.300, 140.783, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000 // Cop start point #7
-81.840, -3.300, 78.262, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000 // Cop start point #8
-55.51,7.56,118.76, 9.000, 9.000, 9.000 // Cop start point #9

However, the last location has 9.000 3 times. I assumed the last 3 number sets were cop facement angles...but out of every other race file, this is the only one that has something other then 0.000, and this is the only race that has the Suppressor in it.
Perhaps they're linked?
Maybe this is a way to help tell the game what opponent to use for that location?
.....or perhaps its some sort of distance related thing?

Well anyway, I'll be looking through the rest of the Carma 1 files and see if there is anything that I can link to that because there has to be something somewhere that tells the game to not use a Cop but use the Supressor instead for one of them locations and since Carma 2 is basically the Carma 1 engine then more then likely I can use that method to add in cops into my games.





Anything I find I'll list down here:
///////////////////////////////////////////////

// Cop start point #9 must be the Suppressor as the Suppressor starts in the highest location (on the rooftop of the hotel) and the second number set for // Cop start point #9 is by far the highest value in comparrison to the others. (As its not a negative number) So I think we can assume that // Cop start point #9 is definetly the Suppressor's start point.


Oooh, something else quite interesting, on the Splat pack - the race "Surreal thing" was the only other level to feature the Suppressor and under that races cop start locations I found this:
-78.89, 29.62, -31.20, 9.000, 9.000, 9.000 // Cop start point #5
Notice the 3 lots of 9.000's. So out of every race there are only 2 cop start locations that have this 9.000 on them and they just so happen to be the races where the Suppressor shows up.

[Lumberjack]

The easy way to test that it to change all the other's to 9s too

[Tarquin]

Yeah, I'ved edited my Carmageddon 1's Blood on the roof tops mission and replaced the 9.000 to 3.000.

I've completed the game so I can go straight away and select the level, I just now need to actualy play the game

I'll try it out later today.


*edit as I could not double post - which would have been a bad thing so I guess editing is better? But sadly it doesn't bump the thread so I hope you see this*


After playing Blood on the Roof tops with the 9.000 changed, the Suppressor did not show up - interesting?
I then went onto Beef Curtains and changed all their cop locations to 9.000 and a Suppressor did appear!!!!!!!!!!! but only in cop location 10. (Just like Blood on the Roof tops)

So the 9.000 does determine a Suppressor but only if its in cop location 10.

I have 3 carmageddon 1's installed on my computer (Original, Splat pack and a mod that adds Carma and Splat pack togeather)
On Carma 1 and the splat pack, the suppressor is opponent 4 (essentialy 5)
On the mod, the Suppressor is opponent 5 (essentialy 6)
The mod only edits the races list and opponents list files so the races themselves are not edited, and the opponents them selves are not edited, infact nothing else is edited.

This means that when the game adds the Suppressor into the maps, its not adding in opponent 4, its adding the BIGAPC, which is the suppressor's actually file.
To proove this furthure, I will be moving the Suppressor down the opponent list, infact I'll do the same for the normal cops and see how that effects this.

[Lumberjack]

Nice, good to investigate.. interesting that it only affects what model is used in the final position.. if I understood that correctly. Keep us updated.

[Tarquin]

After setting up my next objective, I haven't actually tested it out,
I am of course refering to this:

To proove this furthure, I will be moving the Suppressor down the opponent list, infact I'll do the same for the normal cops and see how that effects this.

I'll run it tomorrow (If I'm not destracted).



Also relating to this, I have thought of something.
In Carmageddon 2 you cannot have any more then 15 opponents (well you can have 16 but then your amount of laps drops to 0, 17 or more opponents sets the number of laps to a "-" number which crashes the game)
Becuase you can't have any more then 15 opponents, I'm going to assume that any cops added to the game count towards this limit as well even though they are not really opponents.

That means in my games, Instead of having 15 opponents, I'll have to have 10 opponents and 5 cops, or 8 opponents and 7 cops etc....
That is if we ever get the cops back

[Toshiba-3]

In C2 you can have up to 29 opponents (like in this shot : big grid)but you have to force the cops appearances via the 'explicit opponents' entry in the RACES.TXT file. They'll count in the total number of opponents as well. They'll use the network start points to be spawned I think so there must be enough starting points.
The "Number of cops starting points" (in the race text file) refers to an unimplemented feature, sadly.

[Tarquin]

I'm assuming that to have 29 opponents you'll have to change the race type to "waste all cars"?
As anymore then 15 seems to effect the number of laps (throws them into minus) and that causes the game to crash.



As for Carma 1 style cops - so has the official way to add them in been totaly removed from Carma 2?
Just makes me wounder why they left the cop starting locations in the race files and why the game still reads them.

[Toshiba-3]

Here, the game doesn't crash when the number of laps gets into minus , but you're maybe right about the race type, should test that.

Actually Carma2 is a very unfinished game, the missing car DIGGA is the most visible hint of that hasty release. The fault isn't ofcourse Stainless' but the publisher : SCI. I can't imagine how incredible the game could have become if it was finished totally. So that's why there are kind of artefacts here and there which are still read by the game but useless anyway.

[Tarquin]

I've just been playing with 25 opponents and it gets pretty crazy espeically when you have opponent nastieness set to 10.


I did try out 29 opponents but the timer went mad - starts off with enough time for you to leave it running for a whole week.
Also it always crashed after you complete the race...well, failed the race - I got wasted
With 25 opponents, I see no problems.


I tried this all out on the Nothing city map oh and I had to change the race type to "waste all cars" (race type 1)
As my game crashes when the number of laps are thrown into minus (caused by 17 or more opponents)