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Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Discontinued post-apocalyptic TC project by Junkpile and co.
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Xarathatin
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Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Xarathatin »

Ok to start Q3A has memory constraints stuff like damage on a car the type we are used to will not in anyway hold up in that engine. UT is out for obvious reasons. Looks like we would have to create our own unless someone feels like coming up with a fully exploitable physics engine. I am up for writhing our own but understand it takes professionals about 9 months to a year and a half. I am up for it as I had already stated. Ok got out my qualms who is doing what and what is everyones email addresses? So we can contact each other ? Got my site up and running @ www.binarycorruption.cjb.net My email @ Xarathatin@ Gdnmail.netI
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Dark Angel »

*Sound of roaring croud*...Red Faction......Red Faction......Red Faction......Red Faction......Red Faction...*Sound of roaring croud*
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Xarathatin
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Xarathatin »

Never heard of it can you post a link ? have they released the source ? sounds good though I take it you are the other programmer correct ? Dark_Angel
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Deep_Blue »

Modeler/skinner deep_blue_36@yah00.com deep_blue_36 on YM DeeperBlue on AIM ICQ# 83356296 Not, repeat, Not a programmer...
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Junkpile »

You can call me JP if you want, guy's. I am at;junkpile3137@yahoo.com (wedge_70@yahoo.comI am not on ICQ or AIM. I have the Yahoo! Messenger but, never use it. The best way's to contact me are through here or E-Mail.I can not begin to tell you how happy I am to finally here from one of the programmer's! I was beginning to think that you both disappeared. Now, I wonder where eric has been...Also, I'm wondering if the C2 engine itself might not be able to be altered to handle this game...Dean
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Beast »

As far as I know, no engine can give us the damage physics we need, apart from the - you guessed it - c2 engine. I said it once, and I'll say it again - if we can get movable bridges, weather effects and some stuff working, its like we have a tottaly new game.So the game is limiting - you cant leave the car. That is a drag yeah, but think about all the good stuff the engine can offer us - tottaly versatile and usable car damage, most of us know how to make stuff for carma2 - and we can actualy get some sort of thing going on with the engine.I even have some ideas in my pocket that I'm not sharing yet, because they might not work, but I'm gonna ask.CheersTB
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Xarathatin »

Posted by AdR
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by -Bandit- »

I don't know much about game engines, but i vote on the carma2 engine.
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Junkpile »

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Xarathatin:Also let me make sure that I got this down. Do you want to be able to have the driver at any time be able to jump out of the car and start running? or are there going to be different modes? QUOTE]I want the driver to be brought out of the vehicle at the player's discretion, any time. I would also loike something involved in this that would be similar to the cop's in C1. I don't want cop's, though. I'm not sure what to use at this moment. But, I'm giving it a lot of thought.Weather effects will be very nice if this can be accomplished. I even like the idea of working drawbridges. Those would be awesome for the fortress cities I have in mind for near the end of the game.I want this game to have a story background which I am currently working on. When it is finished, I'll post it in here & get the rest of your input.I do apologize if I seem a bit slow on replying in here. But, this project is becoming a lot more than I expected (I love the way thing's are turtning out.) & IU'm also working on finishing my model's, I'm writing two screenplay's and a few book's. All of this on top of taking care of a wife & 14 yr. old step-daughter. I'd say that I've been pretty busy. So, please be patient if my responses are a little slow.Dean
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Xarathatin
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Xarathatin »

cool cool cool Got some ideas from an old friend of mine maybe the Q3A engine can be gutted to support this in a weird sort of way ill start fiddling with it and see what I can do lateX
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Hellspawn73 »

what about the interstate '82 engine....that allows for the weapons and allows for the incar/outcar mode...can that be incorporated into c2 to enhance it some how or vice versa...take the '82 engine and improve its damage effects?!?!?!??
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Xarathatin »

I totall y forgot about that cool does anyoen have a copyy of it ? an email to the support for the game ? anything ? if you do email it to me or well work something out later Xarathatin
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Dark Angel »

I still think:*Sound of roaring croud*...Red Faction......Red Faction......Red Faction......Red Faction......Red Faction...*Sound of roaring croud*
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Savage-Elve »

Shoot me if you want. I'm just entering into this...I want to learn a program, Blender, wich advertises it's a game developing program. It uses it's own engine, and they give it away for free because they would like it to be de new 3D standard. www.blender.nl
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Deep_Blue »

Xarathatin, seein' as you are the digit-head here... (pardon the term, ya get used to it and I actually talk like this I'm wondering if the modelers here, like myself who are equippped with progs to model for C2 will be able to make stuff ya can use? I mean, CarEd exports .asc and there are some lil' progs out there that convert to other formats that the engine ya ultimately end up usin' can handle. I got all kinds of 3D converters and the like that I've saved up over the last 3 years.. From Carlo Fiorini's ASC2DAT to 3DWin to 3DCNV104 and 3D Exploration *which also shows ya what ya got loaded*. Anybody needs a 3D converter lemme know and I'l either send it to ya or tell ya where ya can get it. I also got 3DS Max 3 but not too good at it yet.. What I was originally askin' is: What format should we be using for finished models? (CarEd eliminates the texture data on export) Is BRender .dat OK? Or is something else easier to work with? (I know it depends on the engine but most of us are set up for BRender (which I hear stainless is no longer using as they have gone balls-up or sumpin'..)Also, is it possible to rip whatever the prog is that reads the .obj's in CarEd and incorporate that in the game? Just an idea- I don't know jack about programming, but CarEd's .obj format is unrecognizeable by anything but CarEd... The .obj's don't take up much space and contain a shitload of data (all car components and texture info as well as component grouping). Or possible to use that or it's inverse as a plugin for sumpin' else so's we can import the .obj's into another prog? (Would get around losing the texture data when exporting to .asc). I dunno.. just a thought.[ September 22, 2001: Message edited by: Deep_Blue ]
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Junkpile »

As far as your request that the car model's be of higher poly count, I would like to submit the reason's I do not support that.In my opinion, they look pretty awesome already.The higher the poly's are, the better your system is going to have to be. From what I can tell, this game already won't run on my current system & we can't even play a demo for it yet...If we make the game as close to perfect as we can & have it looking as great as you want it to, there won't be much room for an expansion...Just my two cents,Dean
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Junkpile »

I'm also thinking that vehicle weapon's (ie; gun's) should be few & far between. I don't want people to be looking at this as a Vigilante 8 clone...Beside's if the vehicle's are too well armed, noone will ever leave their car's... That would make that feature useless. I want "outside of the car" play to be just as important as driving is... Beside's, in post apocolyptic wasteland's, you wouldn't find many missile launcher's or energy cannon's just laying around, right? I'm not saying that these weapon's shouldn't exist. I just think that they should be difficult to come across.Dean
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Xarathatin »

Agreed they should be. Completely agree. Now in response to two posts up JP. I understand what you are saying but if you want the damage to be directly affected by the shape of the car and not by some box then we have to make the cars as detailed as possible. I understand enough about the Carma engine to know that the Models are made with damage meshes and that those meshes are basically boxes around the body itself not matching the way the body is shaped. Am I correct? If so this is my reason why I think this would be a bad idea to leave them the way they are. If you have damage meshes like the ones in the carma engine then our engine has not improved but copied the carma engine. 1 we do not want that. 2 this should be a step forward not a step back in game design. Carma 2 was excellent (for its time). No one has made a car game like it or even tried to take it one step further like us. OK TDR 2000 was a mistake and should have never been released BUT it does have an excellent engine STILL only supporting the box mesh instead of the (what I call ) fender mesh. We are gamers that have taken on the responsibility to design a game that we want because no one will do it for us. We should bust our ass not settle for
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Deep_Blue »

Understood.
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by willB0T »

quote:My concern here is that it might scare some modeller's away from the project...shouldn't do - we're wellard just letting you know I'm a pro max modeller and texture artist with a bit of spare time at present - this looks like a really great project although I only have a vague idea of what it's about...
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Beast »

I think that mesh he's talking about is actualy the bounding box that every c2 car has - its to designate the limits of the car, so the car doesent go through a wall..B
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Deep_Blue »

More complicated BBoxes can and have been made for C2 cars, Unfortunately I'm not one of the guys who made 'em. You can pretty much make 'em fit the car tho. But seriously.. Many games that I've played (aside from I76-you can drive a long time without seeing anything-which actually makes it realistic in that sense.)Yer so damn busy avoiding being bashed or shot at, ya don't notice whether the guy that hits you hits right on yer vehicle or 1 1/2 feet away..
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Junkpile »

All I'm asking for is for the game to recognize the model itself as the bounding shape. Maybe I made that statement too complicated in my E-Mail. That in itself would be a MAJOR change from Carmageddon! Don't you think?
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Junkpile »

I'm sorry, I'm just not understanding why the "fender mesh", as you're calling it, can't just be applied to the model's we've got. It's a digital model either way. Hmmm... Maybe you could explain it better to me. My concern here is that it might scare some modeller's away from the project. I could be wrong. But, I'm just trying to think ahead...Dean
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Savage-Elve »

This means the collision is not caused by an invisible box, but by the faces of the model....? This box car thing of C2 also have it"s influences on driving behavior I think. The car acts like a block on four suspended supports.If you ask me, I would like to see some more realistic physics, like separate power/engine-torque, acceleration settings, more influence of weight and strenght of car on driving etc.By the way I'm learning, with a little bit expierience and alot of curiosity about C/C++. So under guideance of an expierenced programmer I could do some programmingBy the way, Cared .obj files are just ASCII files with texture info[ September 24, 2001: Message edited by: Savage-Elve ]
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Hellspawn73 »

sorry i been away guys...jus finished up the upper end on my cutlass and hopefully i should get my phone line back up in a day or two to post some pics...i personally think that you would have a much better response from the community if you work on a couple month add on proj...that way your not biting off too much and that way it will get done and not fizzle out in a month or two....then if that succeeds take it to the next step...jus my two cents from doin my conversion...alot of initial support but then it can drop off in the long term.
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Xarathatin »

This box car thing of C2 also have it"s influences on driving behavior I think. The car acts like a block on four suspended supports.If you ask me, I would like to see some more realistic physics, like separate power/engine-torque, acceleration settings, more influence of weight and strenght of car on driving etc.Exactly and to be able to do something like that it needs to be detailed. I
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Savage-Elve »

OK, then..Let's try,What's wrong with C2- When I'm upside an opponoent I can't get grip until the wheels are exactly above the other car.When I'm in front of a low wall I can't climb up. Wheels seems to have no grip on the front side. Neither on the upper side; If I make a car with huge wheels, I can't drive upside down. This isn't very important, but the wheels are jus t not wheels.- When m driver is damaged or even trown out of the car, my car just drives on.- same with the engine, so why not have reserved names for components. When the engine component is hit, the car won't ride on.- When I drive trough a corner very fast my wheels should bend, when I loose them, the car should slide on the road.- When my car is split, it should split in components, not in just a teared apart carnameshell.dat.- There's no .TXT and .WAM specification for C2, it's just guessing. How many functions in C2 are working but unknown. Or started but not in the game? ( Like the sub parts entry in the .TXT file)- What's the purpose of using .PIX files?- I WANT TRAILERS !!!- I want to add sub parts, like tandem axles for trucks- I want BB move with the grooves.- I want opponent engine noise- I want more then six wheels- I want fuelOK; just some ideas...
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Savage-Elve »

....[ September 25, 2001: Message edited by: Savage-Elve ]
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Deep_Blue »

DB wants what Eric wants... (scrounging up a better comp..)
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Savage-Elve »

DB; what time is it at your place ?!?!
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Hellspawn73 »

elf you are clueless...try d/l some c2 cars and editing them...half the gripes you have can and already have been done...jus check out any of mine or errol's cars.
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Beroc-Lord of Destruction »

Not to burst everyone's bubble here.... And, I do realize everyone is talking about c2 here for the most part, but there are a few contentions about the setup which we are prescribing here.TDR deos support non box shaped collision meshs. It supports more then 6 wheels. It supports alot of things you are asking for in this forum. It does not however support Trailers, and some other things.As far as Gaming engines go, that isn't my area of expertise, but, I happen to be a bit of a programmer, and have a great deal of knowledge about 3d gaming principles. The mesh supported bounding box is a bad idea, It is about 1 minutes work to generate a tdr bounding box, er mesh, and it conforms to the shape of the car. Each piece in TDR has it's own collision mesh, these are called dynamic collision meshes... or dcol's, And work great. The Curves setup in TDR offers a whole lot more control then C2 as far as making a vehicle respond to it's enviroment, but, of course it isn't reality. you give me suspension, friction and gravity, And I can make a car move. that is reality. 3d gaming can have some, but Mostly it is not very real. Both TDR and C2 cars seem to float in the air when jumping.... and I have found curves that would allow me to make a car Fall upside down. That, is not reality. Also, the distances, and speed settings in both games are horrible. I have driven both enough to relize when it says 100, it feels more like 50, 300 feels more like 100..... and that sucks. The physics of these games are actually quite bad. When you turn a corner, they have a programable slip. and that sucks.... there is no way even the most advanced car can drive like that.OK, enough about carma-bashing.EZ thoughts..... you give a car a weight, a downforce, both front and rear, and tire grip, and you can tell where and how it is gonna go. A torque curve, and editable gearing ratio, and you can tell how fast it goes, and how long it takes to get there. The tire curve gives you slip for both camber and for speed. at greater speeds the tire is more prone to slip..... the only thing that adjusts for that is rear and front downforce. at 0, it has no downforce, therefore will allow you to do donuts.....Simple physics. the more you put into the car for physics, the more complicated the game will be. The use of curves tells how it reacts over a speed.The game should also be developed through the use of scripts and pre generated movements. like a set of full strides, and other actions taken by the user. Including a enter and exit the car. Once the user enters teh car, the car uses the model as a driver.NFS, (bad example) uses a seperate head for head movements, there are two ways to do human models for the game.... Either all as one piece, or as seperate pieces. Use depends on two factors. Single piece meshes can be given predefined actions, like draw a gun, or shoot and recoil. Multi piece meshes, can be models of varying sizes, and the parts linked to eachother. This allows you to script preset actions for the models.... (i.e.-all male gang memebers walk the same, and shoot the same, even if they are different heights)Scripting can be done on multiple levels, you can script actions in events.. like (when the car reaches this point, it stops, the camera pans back as the fortress blows up.) Kinda like UT's engine. Red Faction has a great engine for doing this stuff to.Scripting could be used to control npc's and to help, or harm the user. Scripting could also be used to control elevators, and doors, kinda like a bump door. Actually that is all pretty easy stuff. I have had a chance to look at Skirt, which is a scripting language for Dungeon Siege. It is based off of a building block method of predefined and user defined elements. It simply points to a model and says, draw this here. Now that would be nifty.Another thing we should be talking about here, is how the user interface would be from the two seperate elements that we want to control. Kinda like how do you want the views to be, static, predefinded....Oh well...... I was told to interject where I felt nessecaryHeh... not quite finished.... We also need to discuss how damage will occur on vehicles and people. I think x and I had an envisionment of damage befalling a car due to gunfire, and other stuff. All this boils down to, how the engine interprets the map, and uses it in the game. Personnally, the C2 method of multiple mini-maps would be great for this, but, in the end, the whole thing would be easier to map as one solid piece, much like every other game out today. Both can be done. Just need to konw what we want to do[ October 13, 2001: Message edited by: Beroc-Lord of Destruction ]
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Re: Programming Notes .......... Everyone Read

Post by Xarathatin »

Agreed, I see the views as player defined. i.e. you know oyu are comming up to an area and want to see gunfire hit the car or truck? move the camera (C2 style) so you can see just that side. if models are all one solid piece can we still damage them like in C2 TDR? side note. Maps are huge like the trip from Daytona Bch FL to Tampa FL that is a 3 hour trip in itself from one side of FL to another, engine set up to draw only what you see at the time not the whole map. (saves resources)Another side note: after Talks and Quite a bit of money I'll be going to Seattle washington to talk with the lead designers of the Xbox and the SDK on that and Direct X 9 for roughly a month. Anything that you want me to ask ?latecha
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