Any solution for The Sled and Bugutti issues?

Mother Trucker · Post by **Mother Trucker** » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:45 pm

Every race with one or both of them crashes the game. I would like to fix it, could anyone help me?

Mad_Maxine · Post by **Mad_Maxine** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:22 am

Well, first thing, can you type down exactly what error you get?

Toshiba-3 · Post by **Toshiba-3** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:11 pm

Bugutti and The Sled makes the game crash now and then when they take damage.

This error happens with some addon cars too. We never found what causes this nor how to fix it.

Breakin'Benny · Post by **Breakin'Benny** » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:26 am

I think I know why the Sled and/or the Bugatti crash the game upon volunteering in a race. They've both got the GroovyFunkRefs (for spinning/wheelspin) over the allowed value which is 10, in this case, the game crashes because they're set to 11 (DOS doesn't crash, for some reason, but does in Windows)

Toshiba-3 · Post by **Toshiba-3** » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:29 am

Well, actually we all know about the faulty GroovyFunkRefs, and fixng them sadly isn't enough. I even think it doesn't make a difference for C1 (C2 crashes instantly on faulty GFR).

The cars will keep on crashing the game now and then when taking damages, for no apparent reason.

Breakin'Benny · Post by **Breakin'Benny** » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:06 pm

..Guess one better tone down the "Right-rear suspension parts" too, I had it to 11 while trying the Sled recently and it crashed. Best choice would be to set it to -1, did that, and profit.

Whoever the programmer was, I bet his hand must have slipped

0takumetalhead · Post by **0takumetalhead** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:30 pm

Breakin'Benny wrote:..Guess one better tone down the "Right-rear suspension parts" too, I had it to 11 while trying the Sled recently and it crashed. Best choice would be to set it to -1, did that, and profit.
Whoever the programmer was, I bet his hand must have slipped

I changed the value, The Sled doesnt crash the game anymore but when it's spawned, you'll see it for a sec and then it dissapears.

Edit: Did work on the Bugguti though.

Breakin'Benny · Post by **Breakin'Benny** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:32 pm

You sure you were playing in Windows 95 mode (+ the cnc-ddraw mod)? Because that's where I recall the Sled and Bugutti crashing, try using the KEVWOZEAR code in the Race menu and use either of the two vehicles for testing

By the way, I set the GroovyFunkRefs to be similar to that of the Hawk & the Eagle. Show me some video footage or take screenshots of how it ended up, you can take screenshots in CARMA by pressing LEFT SHIFT and D together, the BMP file will be placed in the DATA directory

0takumetalhead · Post by **0takumetalhead** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:50 pm

It's running with the cnc-ddraw mod, bugguti works fine (changed the value to 10 instead of -1 otherwise it would also dissapear in game). The Sled however acts even more weird now, selecting that car makes the whole level invisible, I've made some screencaps:

On a minor side note, do love the skybox.

Edit: a screencap of the Sled as opponent:

Breakin'Benny · Post by **Breakin'Benny** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:16 pm

I see, guess I better do a bit more research...

0takumetalhead · Post by **0takumetalhead** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:50 pm

Will dissable the Sled for now, at least Splat Pack doesn't crash anymore.

Breakin'Benny · Post by **Breakin'Benny** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:50 pm

Okay, I think I figured it out. Lady Bug and Sinthea both set the first of the 4 items in the "Drivel wheels GroovyFunkRefs (for spinning)" too high, resulting in their tires either clipping through the holes for the wheels or crashing the game.

Then, I came in and looked at their vehicles' data files. I looked under GroovyFunkRefs and saw 11's, those two bitches sure thought they'd get best spinning if their tires were Up to Eleven right? Well, I changed those 11s into -1's to make them not only match the Hawk and the Eagle, but also to make it extra fair and easier to steer

The Solution: Since numbers over 10 crash the game when used on vehicles without 6 wheels (like the Suppressor), it crashes without reason. My only solution so far would be to change the 11 in the GroovyFunkRefs to -1

I figured this out when I looked at Toshiba's comment:

Toshiba-3 wrote:When I /investigated/ this issue a couple of years ago, I noticed this for both SLED and BUGUTTI:
11,-1,2,1 // Driven wheels GroovyFunkRefs (for spinning) - MUST BE 4 ITEMS

10,9,-1,-1 // Non-driven wheels GroovyFunkRefs (for spinning) - MUST BE 4 ITEMS
The eleven there is wrong, should be -1. In C2 that would make the game crash.

Now in C1 it seems like it is tolerated? I'm not sure, IMO various versions of C1 might handle errors differently.

0takumetalhead · Post by **0takumetalhead** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:11 pm

Both values don't work with the Sled, will work for Bugutti though. That was the first thing I did.

Breakin'Benny · Post by **Breakin'Benny** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:28 am

Right, but the Sled turned up 100% free from problems for me. I'm probably just lucky

Well? Yes, the Driven wheels when spinning is the problem indeed. I can conclude that values higher than 10 causes vehicles with less than 6 tires to make BRender crash

Toshiba-3 · Post by **Toshiba-3** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:49 am

Breakin'Benny: You don't really understand what these values do uh? :)

Here: they are references and not values in term of quantity or the likes. They just assign a reference to grooves further in the text file. You could replace the 10 by 11 if you also replaced the 10 in the groove which used that reference. There are references for spinning, steering and suspension. If you add a steering reference, 20, and put that reference in a rocking groove put on the head of a driver, the head will turn with the wheels. If you remove that reference from the steering part and rather place it in one of the susp slots (-1) and then modify the groove to move along a linear path, the head will go up and down along with the assigned suspension! :) Magic!

Back to the error: in C2 such an error would crash the game directly without error message, but in C1 it seems like the game can tolerate such a hickup. Ofcourse it's better to have it fixed but sadly the Bugutti/Sled bug doesn't come from there. The game will continue to randomly crash with both of these cars (and some other addons) for no particular reason. Hence why the devs put these cars apart at release.

I plan on making them from scratch again in Max but that will remove the crush datas.

Breakin'Benny · Post by **Breakin'Benny** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:33 am

I know 0% about the GroovyFunkRefs, Tosh. But I don't mind if the Bugutti and Sled were left out if people are experiencing crashes etc., the bad thing is that we wouldn't know about Agent Orange's dissapearance. Anyway, I hope he doesn't come back in Reincarnation! If he did, the Splat Pack would be non-canon and we'd never had known who Moon Child, Mother Trucker or even Ashteroid was back in 1997 (ignore anything about him being a tomgirl in C2)

By the way, if you're a smart feller I think you'd love to come with me and Espyo to Carmageddon Wiki!

stygimoloch · Post by **stygimoloch** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:16 pm

If Agent Orange returns, he could be a government-funded reconstructed zombie or cyborg type thing a la Jack Clawhammer...

Alternatively, Reincarnation could just see them hitting the "reset canon" switch.

MalkavsRustyBones · Post by **MalkavsRustyBones** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:53 am

0takumetalhead wrote:Will dissable the Sled for now, at least Splat Pack doesn't crash anymore.

How would we go about disabling both?

Breakin'Benny · Post by **Breakin'Benny** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:32 am

Not hard at all BoneofMalkav, just remove all strings in the OPPONENT.TXT regarding Lady Bug & Sinthea (Decrypt with IWANTTOFIDDLE if it's currently in-crypted) and they won't appear!

I won't make it any more simpler, because I want to be idiotproof (very clear and easy to understand, with no second thoughts. Not even a retard should be able to fail)

CWR · Post by **CWR** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:42 pm

Should you also reduce the number of opponents by 2 then?

And by 'remove all strings' does that include the 'sinthmug.fli' line in both Max and Anna's opponent entries?

Breakin'Benny · Post by **Breakin'Benny** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:36 pm

Yes, you have to that or else you can't play. Carmageddon doesn't like playing if there's an expected number of racers, when the amount isn't met.

The SINTHMUG.FLI is just a placeholder for Max, Anna and the Cops + Special Forces A.k.a Chief Biggun, but I won't stop you from changing the .FLI file used to "MUGFOB.FLI" (Mugshot for Splat Pack demo, you don't see the identities of the drivers)

Do whatever you think is best, but be careful if you don't know how to work with modifying

CWR · Post by **CWR** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:57 pm

I revised sled.txt and buggit.txt, changed right rear suspension from 11 to -1; changed the third value on centre of mass from -0.05 to 0; and changed the rolling resistance from 0.03 to 0.05 on both cars. The game no longer crashes when either car is driven (using KEVWOZEAR cheat) nor when either car appears as an opponent.

After looking at many of the SP car txt files (and valhella.txt from C1 on account of the similar 'blades on wheels' setup to the Sled) those 3 areas in the txt files stood out as anomalies. I also compared buggit.txt to grimm.txt because of their similar configurations, but they were both in SP. I wonder if Cleaver was absent from SP because another wheel-bladed car was already in the game?

0takumetalhead · Post by **0takumetalhead** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:24 am

Found out what the possible issue is with the sled (after changing the value to -1). The front wheels always stick under the map, which caues the Sled to fling of the map causing to never respawn. Carmagedon's engine doesn't know how to handle it.

I can post a vid if it does help with explaining.

Espyo · Post by **Espyo** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:16 pm

Oh, that's easily understandable. At least for me, I've seen one or two "random flying to get free" glitches in the Carma games. But if the video you're mentioning actually demonstrates the Sled flying into space, then by all means, please show it!

0takumetalhead · Post by **0takumetalhead** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:23 pm

Espyo wrote:Oh, that's easily understandable. At least for me, I've seen one or two "random flying to get free" glitches in the Carma games. But if the video you're mentioning actually demonstrates the Sled flying into space, then by all means, please show it!

You won't see it actually flying away, just dissappearing, you'll see it for half a sec and then it's gone. Will post a vid later today.

Edit: it's easy to replicate with any vehicle with a sharp front end, drive as fast as possible into a ramp or any small space that forms a triangle sort of and you see your car dissappearing.

2th edit: won't be able to tape it, fraps records the sounds but not the screen :/

Espyo · Post by **Espyo** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:22 pm

Oh, I figured as much... It's probably just this.

0takumetalhead · Post by **0takumetalhead** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:45 am

Exactly the reason why The Sled dissappears, not sure why it won't be registred as wasted though. Hey at least we know it has nothing to do with the model, it's the handling file that needs to be fixed.

A slight update, 2 things that aren't correct with the Sled, both are handling related. first one's I previously mentioned and the second one is this:

And no, no new value can be set, setting it to 0,001 and resets itself even after saving.

Using Carmagedit V1.1

Toshiba-3 · Post by **Toshiba-3** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:10 am

Must be an error on Carmagedit's end.

The Sled has correct suspension give:
0.012, 0.012 // suspension give (forward, back)

Also I don't think using Carmagedit to view/edit txt files is a wise idea.

Better get them decrypted and open them up with notepad :)

I loaded The Sled in PlayThing 1 and nothing indicates that front wheel actors problem you showed up there.

Have you fiddled with the model maybe? Or else it's just a random error/bug from the engine.

0takumetalhead · Post by **0takumetalhead** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:51 pm

Toshiba-3 wrote:Must be an error on Carmagedit's end.

The Sled has correct suspension give:
0.012, 0.012 // suspension give (forward, back)
Also I don't think using Carmagedit to view/edit txt files is a wise idea.

Better get them decrypted and open them up with notepad :)

I loaded The Sled in PlayThing 1 and nothing indicates that front wheel actors problem you showed up there.

Have you fiddled with the model maybe? Or else it's just a random error/bug from the engine.

I use Cgedit since i can't gett the cheat to work to decrypt the files, using the Full Text Edit function instead, got the Bugutti fixed with it and the Sled to partially spawn with it.

Oh well, your right about Suspension give, even though it still strikes me odd that every other vehicle showed it properly in the Vehicle Mechanics tab.

Edit: only thing i changed on the Sled is it's issue it had in the first place (rear-right suspension).

QTZ · Post by **QTZ** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:17 pm

Maybe late, but...

Breakin'Benny wrote:I think I know why the Sled and/or the Bugatti crash the game upon volunteering in a race. They've both got the GroovyFunkRefs (for spinning/wheelspin) over the allowed value which is 10, in this case, the game crashes because they're set to 11 (DOS doesn't crash, for some reason, but does in Windows)

This is the reason, I have fixed this for my self back in 2003 and some time ago released, I have also integrated this fix to my tools.

The other car which crash, but only where it's driven by player and repaired is Mini, which I also fixed removing some part of Crush Data.

There are other non critical errors related to other cars (also fixed).

PS. All trouble that 0takumetal... have are because he using CarmagEdit text file editor which is not compatible with Splat Pack.

The CWA Board